First fish issue

Knightrider2022

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This is my first fish issue in a small reef tank (15 gallons). And I want to make sure I address it right. From my reading it could be ich or flukes.
Do I quarantine him? FW dip? Not sure but I want to do it right.
Thank you.

4D6B2A6D-9CA8-469C-9043-D932CF1B191D.jpeg
 
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This is my first fish issue in a small reef tank (15 gallons). And I want to make sure I address it right. From my reading it could be ich or flukes.
Do I quarantine him? FW dip? Not sure but I want to do it right.
Thank you.

4D6B2A6D-9CA8-469C-9043-D932CF1B191D.jpeg
Pic is very distant and the glass itself has dots making it hard to distinguish ich or glass spots.
With flukes, you will see rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
With ich, loss of appetite, scratching, darting, refusal to eat and array of salt like grains.

Can you provide closer pics with lens and glass cleaned ?
 

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This is my first fish issue in a small reef tank (15 gallons). And I want to make sure I address it right. From my reading it could be ich or flukes.
Do I quarantine him? FW dip? Not sure but I want to do it right.
Thank you.
Check out the forums on fish diseases--this is the main one, but you can also refer to the disease ID thread here to find out which one it is and what the appropriate treatment protocol is. Hope that helps!
 
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Knightrider2022

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Pic is very distant and the glass itself has dots making it hard to distinguish ich or glass spots.
With flukes, you will see rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
With ich, loss of appetite, scratching, darting, refusal to eat and array of salt like grains.

Can you provide closer pics with lens and glass cleaned ?
He’s not lethargic, has no issues eating or breathing.
He won’t stay still long enough to get a closer photo
 
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Knightrider2022

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Pic is very distant and the glass itself has dots making it hard to distinguish ich or glass spots.
With flukes, you will see rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
With ich, loss of appetite, scratching, darting, refusal to eat and array of salt like grains.

Can you provide closer pics with lens and glass cleaned ?
 

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Perfect. Confirmed, its ich and needs to be treated in quarantine at your soonest. Best treatment would be coppersafe or general cure with coppersafe my choice at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
Also monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment
You will also need to leave display tank FishLess (Fallow) for at least 6-8 weeks to assure the cysts and trophants have completed their life cycle without a host and have died off
 

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Knightrider2022

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Perfect. Confirmed, its ich and needs to be treated in quarantine at your soonest. Best treatment would be coppersafe or general cure with coppersafe my choice at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
Also monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment
You will also need to leave display tank FishLess (Fallow) for at least 6-8 weeks to assure the cysts and trophants have completed their life cycle without a host and have died off
 
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Knightrider2022

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Perfect. Confirmed, its ich and needs to be treated in quarantine at your soonest. Best treatment would be coppersafe or general cure with coppersafe my choice at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
Also monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment
You will also need to leave display tank FishLess (Fallow) for at least 6-8 weeks to assure the cysts and trophants have completed their life cycle without a host and have died off
Excuse my ignorance. Does this include invertebrates
 

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Thanks for the picture article. I would ask you not to post about disease management techniques in an acute illness situation. And while Humblefish's site is good reference - there are some differences in the protocol recommended here vs. there. I think it's important that we follow the R2R protocols on R2R. Of course anyone is free to use whatever protocol they want - but often mentioning 5 ways of doing things can lead to confusion and errors.
 
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Thanks for the picture article. I would ask you not to post about disease management techniques in an acute illness situation. And while Humblefish's site is good reference - there are some differences in the protocol recommended here vs. there. I think it's important that we follow the R2R protocols on R2R. Of course anyone is free to use whatever protocol they want - but often mentioning 5 ways of doing things can lead to confusion and errors.
What makes you believe it is an acute situation? Based on pic and description of behavior it would be a stretch to reach that conclusion. The majority of info in the stickies on the disease forum for disease diagnosis and treatment are authored by Humblefish…..so the protocol is the same, but perhaps less up to date…...Would you prefer I link to here?
 
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MnFish1

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What makes you believe it is an acute situation? Based on pic and description of behavior it would be a stretch to reach that conclusion. The majority of info in the stickies on the disease forum for disease diagnosis and treatment are authored by Humblefish…..so the protocol is the same, but perhaps less up to date…...Would you prefer I link to here?
Because - of the way the OP was written - its a 'new tank', the poster has a 'new issue' (his first fish issue) - to me that is the definition of 'acute'. I just looked at the stickies at the beginning of this thread - which is the 'Fish Disease and Treatment and diagnosis' section - and I see only stickies written by Jay Hemdal. Humblefish has posted numerous threads and given lots of advice over the years - and I give him all the credit in the world.

Ich management or eradication IMHO - is an advanced topic - not necessarily appropriate for this thread, there is huge debate as to whether it is effective or not as compared to other factors at play - there are also multiple protocols for 'ich management'.

The goals of this forum are 1) diagnosing a disease (if possible) 2). Offering treatment recommendations (if any) and 3) answering any follow-up questions. and 4) hopefully getting follow-up from the poster. One problem is if/when someone who has an issue, they want a specific answer - for the most part. As I'm sure you're aware if you google treatment for cryptocaryon there is an extremely wide gamut. Thus - we TRY to stick to the protocols recommended here - to keep consistency. Of course anyone can follow any protocol they want, from any site they want, etc.

Again - your post of the pictures of what causes white spots was very helpful - thanks a lot for that - and to the OP - you can read multiple paragraphs and posts as to the risks/benefits of ICH management. In the other thread provided at your leisure.
 

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Because - of the way the OP was written - its a 'new tank', the poster has a 'new issue' (his first fish issue) - to me that is the definition of 'acute'. I just looked at the stickies at the beginning of this thread - which is the 'Fish Disease and Treatment and diagnosis' section - and I see only stickies written by Jay Hemdal. Humblefish has posted numerous threads and given lots of advice over the years - and I give him all the credit in the world.

Ich management or eradication IMHO - is an advanced topic - not necessarily appropriate for this thread, there is huge debate as to whether it is effective or not as compared to other factors at play - there are also multiple protocols for 'ich management'.

The goals of this forum are 1) diagnosing a disease (if possible) 2). Offering treatment recommendations (if any) and 3) answering any follow-up questions. and 4) hopefully getting follow-up from the poster. One problem is if/when someone who has an issue, they want a specific answer - for the most part. As I'm sure you're aware if you google treatment for cryptocaryon there is an extremely wide gamut. Thus - we TRY to stick to the protocols recommended here - to


This sticky has links to over a dozen topics with most authored by Humblefish.
Ich management can be quite simple as outlined. It’s not an advanced topic unless you make the call that everyone must follow strict quarantine protocols. Not everyone does that. Obviously the OP did not. The actual first decision needed by the Op is whether to treat and go fallow or not. Why are you imposing your methods on others and denying them information to alternatives? I have no issue with them making either choice as both have their merits .
 
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This sticky has links to over a dozen topics with most authored by Humblefish.
Ich management can be quite simple as outlined. It’s not an advanced topic unless you make the call that everyone must follow strict quarantine protocols. Not everyone does that. Obviously the OP did not. The actual first decision needed by the Op is whether to treat and go fallow or not. Why are you imposing your methods on others and denying them information to alternatives? I have no issue with them making either choice as both have their merits .
And - https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/ has the current protocols. I do not know why those are there or if they should be. BUT - thanks for pointing them out. You're absolutely correct - that there should not be contradictory information on the site

If Ich management were not an advanced topic - there would be no need for a fish/disease treatment forum IMHO - yet there are many people with problems with not only CI, velvet, flukes, etc - which are not at all covered by 'ich management'. Thats also part of the problem. Many of these people are 'first-time' reef keepers.

As to imposing methods onto others - I am not. I said - this person came to this forum for an answer to a specific disease question - and what to do. That is what was being answered. The long-term ich management protocol IMHO - does not answer the immediate question - but is something the OP can consider in the future.

Ps - we wouldn't be having this discussion - if you had just said - 'this is what I recommend' - and posted a link to Ich management - and your rationale. the link alone - IMHO - is confusing and not particularly helpful in this situation.

Lastly - I have no objection to Humblefish's site - or his recommendations. I'm not sure it's completely appropriate to recommend another site - when there are multiple protocols, etc posted here - which will just confuse the OP.
Humblefish forum is great for fish disease/treatment/quarantine questions
 

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Ich management can be quite simple as outlined. It’s not an advanced topic unless you make the call that everyone must follow strict quarantine protocols. Not everyone does that. Obviously the OP did not. The actual first decision needed by the Op is whether to treat and go fallow or not. Why are you imposing your methods on others and denying them information to alternatives? I have no issue with them making either choice as both have their merits .
@Rtaylor. Here is a quote from Humblefish's article on Ich management - which I agree with - and was trying to point out.
Ich management is more of a “learn as you go” process, which is why experienced hobbyists often fare better than newbies. For me, ich management just got to be too stressful. The stress of seeing the spots, wondering if today was going to be the day it finally caught up with me, or if the fish that just died was a result of ich or something else. Losing too many fish under “mysterious” circumstances is what finally led me to choose ich eradication.
 

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@Rtaylor. Here is a quote from Humblefish's article on Ich management - which I agree with - and was trying to point out.
Ok, so the op shouldn’t be informed of options? If they were confused by my post, I’m sure they are more than capable of asking for clarification. One of the benefits of that specific thread is the information reduces the knowledge gap for newer reefers. Probably the majority of reefers live with ich in their tanks. So, if it’s advanc then most reefers are advanced.

It absolutely is an option to the question asked, so how does it not answer the question?

I have no problem with people who follow strict quarantine protocols. I find an overall lower survival rate as many fish die in quarantine while being exposed to carcinogenic poison for extended periods of time. Kinda like chemotherapy for humans. Yes it kills the disease, but it can kill or decrease the life expectancy of the patient.

As the op admitted to being inexperienced they may not be the most qualified to diagnose an emergency situation. The fish had a few spots and no obvious changes in behavior. Therefore, 100% not an acute situation.


The information I shared is listed in a sticky on this forum…..so it must be protocol supported by the forum. You seem irked that I linked to the same info in a different forum (it’s updated regularly). Your argument that information must conform to R2R protocols doesn’t stand up for that reason alone.

It’s ok if you disagree with the method and you are of course free to share your opinions on why you believe so. You essentially accused me of giving bad advice that isn’t supported by this forum. You continue to dig in your heels for some reason.
It is possible that just observing the fish in the DT and providing a healthy diet is the only course of action required. It’s also possible that treatment could be required if the outbreak begins to cause obvious signs of stress.
Everyone doesn’t have to do it your way. I think you can share your method. Let me share mine.
 
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MnFish1

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Ok, so the op shouldn’t be informed of options? One of the benefits of that specific thread is the information reduces the knowledge gap for newer reefers. Probably the majority of reefers live with ich in their tanks. So, if it’s advanced…, then most reefers are advanced.

It absolutely is an option to the question asked, so how does it not answer the question?

I have no problem with people who follow strict quarantine protocols. I find an overall lower survival rate as many fish die in quarantine while being exposed to carcinogenic poison for extended periods of time. Kinda like chemotherapy for humans. Yes it kills the disease, but it can kill or decrease the life expectancy of the patient. As the op admitted to being inexperienced they may not be the most qualified to diagnose an emergency situation. The fish had a few spots and no obvious changes in behavior. Therefore, 100% not an acute situation.
The information I shared is listed in a sticky on this forum…..so it must be protocol supported by the forum. Your argument that information must conform to R2R protocols doesn’t stand up for that reason alone. It’s ok if you disagree with the method and you are of course free to share your opinions on why you believe so. You essentially accused me of giving bad advice that isn’t supported by this forum. You continue to dig in your heels for some reason.
It is possible that just observing the fish in the DT and providing a healthy diet is the only course of action required. It’s also possible that treatment could be required if the outbreak begins to cause obvious signs of stress.
Everyone doesn’t have to do it your way. I think you can share your method. Let me share mine.
It's because I believe - in this instance - you in fact IMHO did give bad advice, and I explained why. It's my opinion, and of course - as you're free to express yours, I'm free to express mine. I quoted your source - which stated its more of an advanced method - as compared to something for new reefers. Thats my opinion. Thats your sources opinion.

Since its my job as a 'fish medic' to mention these things - I did. It was nothing personal - and nothing against disease management. Best wishes.

PS one problem - is that many people do not realize when the possibility of observation changes to an immediate need for treatment. Fish do Die of Cryptocaryon. That is why IMHO - again - just my opinion - is that for new reefers a treatment, as compared to ich management is the better option.
 

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It's because I believe - in this instance - you in fact IMHO did give bad advice, and I explained why. It's my opinion, and of course - as you're free to express yours, I'm free to express mine. I quoted your source - which stated its more of an advanced method - as compared to something for new reefers. Thats my opinion. Thats your sources opinion.

Since its my job as a 'fish medic' to mention these things - I did. It was nothing personal - and nothing against disease management. Best wishes.

PS one problem - is that many people do not realize when the possibility of observation changes to an immediate need for treatment. Fish do Die of Cryptocaryon. That is why IMHO - again - just my opinion - is that for new reefers a treatment, as compared to ich management is the better option.
Fish also die from medication overdoses or poor water quality in treatment. There are huge risks in medicating fish that are typically ignored. These risks are particularly high for new reefers as it can be complicated to get and keep medication at the necessary levels while maintaining high water quality.
You can’t focus on the challenges of one method while ignoring the very high risks and significant challenges of the other.

Humblefish stated experienced reefers fare better with ich management than newbies. Do you honestly think this same statement doesn’t apply to treatment? Honestly?
 

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