Fish death after adding urchin

[Acros]

I added a blue tuxedo urchin to eat the algae. Within 18 hours, my clownfish pair is dead (only fish in the tank). They have been in the tank for close to 2 months.

When I added the urchin, my fish started to freak out and tried burying themselves in the sand. I found one of my clownfish dead in the overflow, and the other one dead wedged headfirst in a hole in my rocks.

A week after I lost the clowns, I added a scooter dragonet. He was picking at my sand and rocks. I added a bottle of reef nutrition trigger pods after adding the fish to re-seed my pod population. The initial seeding was about two months back, and I feed live phyto every day.

Anyway, the dragonet is dead within 48 hours. I could not spot any signs of disease on the fish.

Notes:

• I stupidly added some water from the first store into my tank while acclimating the urchin.
• My SPS is all doing good and showing decent growth.
• No sign that the fish was eaten by anything in the tank.
• Other tank inhabitants - 4 * Trochus snails, 1 * Blue tuxedo urchin, any hitchhiker from 20lbs gulf live rock.
• I did not quarantine any of the fish.
• Salinity - 1.026
• Alk - 8.7
• Ammonia - 0
• Nitrite - 0
• Nitrate ~ 0
• Phosphate - 0.012
• Tank age - 2 months
• Size - 25 gallon

I appreciate all the help I can get. Should I go fallow for 45 days?

The dragonet. It died with its mouth open.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What test kits are you using?
It appears that the clowns either freaked out badly (my guess) and crashed into objects OR the bag water contained either toxins or a wide difference in salinty-ph-nitrates although osmotic shock is not likely

 

[Acros]

What test kits are you using?
It appears that the clowns either freaked out badly and crashed into objects OR the bag water contained either toxins or a wide difference in salinty-ph-nitrates

I use Hanna for Alk and Phosphate. Hand held Refractometer for salinity. Everything else is API.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I use Hanna for Alk and Phosphate. Hand held Refractometer for salinity. Everything else is API.

Some of the numbers seemed odd why I asked. If you’re not aware, API is notorious for false readings and have let down many reefers hence the low price for a master test kit
You’re likely getting false readings with the api results

 

[Tamberav]

The fish look skinny to me and not overly healthy. The scooter was probably a bad purchase as it just doesn't look like its been eating enough for awhile.

I doubt there was anything too toxic in that bag of water because an urchin came in it... they are sensitive to such things. The fact your corals and inverts are okay points to disease or already compromised/weak fish.

 

[Quietman]

High nutrients aren't going to kill a fish that fast unless really high. If you have gulf live rock, you're not going to have any ammonia. I would get better tests still...salifert are good relatively inexpensive tests.

Agree with @Tamberav that dragonet is too skinny for only 2 days without food. A healthy fish will take weeks to starve to that point. If you bought from store/dealer I'd try for a refund. To me, it's unlikely the same thing that caused the clown fish deaths affected the dragonet.

Why did the clowns freak out? I'm not aware of any diseases/toxins that cause fish to do that after being exposed immediately but I'm hardly an expert on clown fish disease or urchin toxins. I'm thinking it's more likely they were being curious or aggressive and got stuck. It's rare - but have heard of it anecdotally in forums. Both of them though? Those are long odds.

 

[JGT]

The fish look skinny to me and not overly healthy. The scooter was probably a bad purchase as it just doesn't look like its been eating enough for awhile.

I doubt there was anything too toxic in that bag of water because an urchin came in it... they are sensitive to such things. The fact your corals and inverts are okay points to disease or already compromised/weak fish.

I agree. They both look emaciated and maybe the stress from adding the urchin was the tipping point that led to their demise.

 

[Acros]

High nutrients aren't going to kill a fish that fast unless really high. If you have gulf live rock, you're not going to have any ammonia. I would get better tests still...salifert are good relatively inexpensive tests.

Agree with @Tamberav that dragonet is too skinny for only 2 days without food. A healthy fish will take weeks to starve to that point. If you bought from store/dealer I'd try for a refund. To me, it's unlikely the same thing that caused the clown fish deaths affected the dragonet.

Why did the clowns freak out? I'm not aware of any diseases/toxins that cause fish to do that after being exposed immediately but I'm hardly an expert on clown fish disease or urchin toxins. I'm thinking it's more likely they were being curious or aggressive and got stuck. It's rare - but have heard of it anecdotally in forums. Both of them though? Those are long odds.

They were both (clownfish) trying to dig into the sand and could not relax. When the second one died, it was wedged hard into the rock so that I had to pull it out by the tail.

 

[Acros]

I agree. They both look emaciated and maybe the stress from adding the urchin was the tipping point that led to their demise.

The dragonet was added after the urchin. Maybe it was starving for a few weeks, to begin with. However, I added live trigger pods to the tank after introducing the dragonet.

 

[Acros]

I will get a salifert nitrate.

I did a 50% water change after I lost the clowns. The dragonet was added a day after the water change.

Should I do a 45-day fallow period just to be safe?

 

[Uncle99]

Wedging in a rock by anything other than a tang or rock dweller could mean something is chasing him at night? LR can be problematic.

It’s definitely not the urchin, and hopefully you didn’t get any surprises from your LFS in the water.

Common disease we see regularly in fish are not always seen.

 

[Uncle99]

I will get a salifert nitrate.

I did a 50% water change after I lost the clowns. The dragonet was added a day after the water change.

Should I do a 45-day fallow period just to be safe?

I would agree with that, if you go 45, have a read of Jay Hemdals postings as to do with time and increased heat if ya go 45 days.

I’m still on the old 72-76 days regiment with no change in heat but that time is likely overkill.

 

[blaxsun]

The best way is to acclimate your fish, inverts (etc.) in the bag in your tank, then use a drip method in a bowl or container over a period of 20-30 minutes to get them used to the differences between the LFS and your environment. Then fish out with a net to minimize how much external water and stuff you introduce.

That being said, I don't think the water from your LFS played a huge role (but I don't know how much you added, either). The scooter dragonets are notoriously hard to keep and finicky eaters. I've never had anything react to an urchin other than investigate out of pure curiosity. Nothing ever fled from one, so I suspect something else may be at play here.

 

[Acros]

The only hitchhikers (other than a few types of macroalgae) I have seen are a few giant amphipods. I have not seen any kind of worms. There was a pretty bad ammonia spike during the initial curing, that killed off all the worms.

I have a few of these snails/limpets on the rock and some sponges. Tons of coralline algae and other encrusting stuff. The shell is covered in algae.

 

[blaxsun]

While striking, all the dragonets really need a larger tank - and the mandarins will kill any ruby reds they reside with. The reason isn't the size of the tank - it's due to not being able to cultivate a large enough self-sustaining copepod population that the dragonets feed on (pretty much 24/7 given the opportunity).

This is why you'll see the 100-gallon tank recommendation. It's not for the fish - it's so that you can have enough live rock that your dragonets don't starve. Otherwise you'll be dosing a $25 bottle of copepods every few weeks (which quickly becomes cost prohibitive).

 

[blaxsun]

Some great fish that I've had good success with in smaller tanks (other than clownfish): sixline wrasse, cleaner wrasse, orchin and indigo dottbacks, chromis, azure damsel, midas blenny...

 

[Acros]

I am thinking of keeping just one six-line wrasse.... after the fallow period.

 

[Quietman]

I think a fallow period is solid, but not for 45 days. There's just no evidence this was pathogen. @Uncle99 said something that got me thinking. You've probably got a hitchhiker on that rock. Leave the fish out and bait for some critters. Some aggressive crab, maybe a carnivorous amphipod, or some such. Check tank at night with flashlight.

 

[Tamberav]

The dragonet was added after the urchin. Maybe it was starving for a few weeks, to begin with. However, I added live trigger pods to the tank after introducing the dragonet.

Once a fish is too skinny...too far gone. It's organs are already being damaged and simply getting it to eat won't save it. Always wait for a healthy specimen.

 

[Acros]

I will try baiting with some frozen food tonight. None of the fish had any signs of being eaten, no missing fins, no bite marks.

I might have gotten an already weak scooter dragonet. I cannot figure out how the clownfish pair died.

I had a quarter-sized curly-cue anemone in my tank, that I took out when adding the dragonet.