Fish dying in QT: Clownfish turning brown/purple, blue tang tail rotting

Dave1993

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Dave, your fish are now immune as long as they are fed correctly, not medicated and living in a stress free environment as much as possible. :D

If you would have medicated that fish, you would now be on the disease forum with all sorts of problems that the fish didn't have in the first place. I am not sure why so many people can't understand that as it is basic biology.

I put out there for years that anyone can come to my house and throw any fish into my tank with a disease of their choice and see if anything happens. No one applied.

Of course i didn't want a tuna or manta ray but a small fish that I didn't mind having.
A couple of months ago Humblefish came here and we went shopping for a fish or coral. I told him the same thing. Pick a sick fish and put it in my tank. We couldn't find one but I bought a coral from a filthy store where many of the fish were infected. I put that coral right into my tank and it is still there along with 5 or 6 other fish I got in that same store since then.

Immunity is the best thing there is and the more people learn about it, the easier this hobby will be.
and people say Acanthurus tangs can't be kept in a environment with ich
 
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Crown

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Crown, this is not "My" method. . It is the scientific method that I did not invent. It has been around for decades for Humans and all creatures. All living creatures have immunity even parasites.

Here is part of a scientific paper on this.

Defenses in Fish SkinMaría Ángeles Esteban)
Quote: Immunity associated with the parasites depends on the inhabiting discrete sites in the host. Especially important for this paper are the ectoparasites, those habiting in or on the skin. Until recently there had been little direct evidence of innate immune mechanisms against parasites associated with mucosal epithelium [285]. The active immunological role of skin against parasitic infection has been shown recently [286288], and now mucosal immunity against them start to be elucidated.
Non-parasitic fishes usually die following infection, but animals surviving sublethal parasite exposure become resistant to subsequent challenge. This resistance correlates with the presence of humoral antibodies in the sera and cutaneous mucus of immune fishes.

If we allow our fish to get sick, it's too late. There is no reason to let that happen and by any medication we are on the road to failure as that fish was healthy when they collected it.

Thank you for your detailed answers and patience in explaining everything. I just didn’t want to discredit Jay and others with statements like “medication is what killed your fish”. They have helped many people here save their fish during nasty outbreaks, myself included.

That said, I’m open to new ideas and would love to skip QT if possible. I’m going to take closer look at your method and try to follow it to a T on another tank. Is this the most updated version of your method? https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/the-other-way-to-run-a-reef-tank-no-quarantine.573/

In fact I just bought some fresh live clams. sounds like that’s your go to ingredient:

081550D8-DD06-424C-9EF1-43F9A4DCF10C.jpeg
 
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Paul B

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and people say Acanthurus tangs can't be kept in a environment with ich
People say a lot of things, especially if they can't keep Acanthurus tangs.

I just didn’t want to discredit Jay and others with statements like “medication is what killed your fish”.
I would never discredit Jay as he is the fish disease expert. I am not because I never deal with diseases. But I did many times in the distant past but the medications and methods differed significantly than now.

In fact I just bought some fresh live clams. sounds like that’s your go to ingredient:
That is perfect. I eat them myself. :)

Remember it is not just food. The tank set up means a lot and a brand new tank will not be healthy no matter what you do. But those clams are great and don't need to be fed every day. A few times a week is fine. You can freeze them because they go bad fast. Your freezer won't kill the bacteria.

Freeze them and chop or shave thin slices off. Don't put them in the blender because that makes mush.
Good luck
 
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Dave1993

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People say a lot of things, especially if they can't keep Acanthurus tangs.


I would never discredit Jay as he is the fish disease expert. I am not because I never deal with diseases. But I did many times in the distant past but the medications and methods differed significantly than now.


That is perfect. I eat them myself. :)

Remember it is not just food. The tank set up means a lot and a brand new tank will not be healthy no matter what you do. But those clams are great and don't need to be fed every day. A few times a week is fine. You can freeze them because they go bad fast. Your freezer won't kill the bacteria.

Freeze them and chop or shave thin slices off. Don't put them in the blender because that makes mush.
Good luck
https://thecornishfishmonger.co.uk/clams-live-fresh-in-their-shells.html these clams any good?
 

Paul B

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Yes they are. As long as they are for Human consumption, not cooked and not from an LFS.
I sometimes use bait clams but I would rather buy human ones. I eat some and some go to the fish. :p
 
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Crown

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For the clownfish - to do a proper histopath exam requires starting with a live fish and then euthanizing it, preserving it and sending it to a lab. Basic histo costs upwards of $300, so that isn't really a viable option. I wish I knew what this issue is caused by.....

For a last-ditch effort, using an broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic would be the way to go so Neoplex or Kanamycin. I don't use a lot of furan drugs, but maybe? I'm still 100% sure that even if you manage to stop the infection, the tang isn't going to be able to regrow its tail. I suppose a fish can survive without a tail if given good supporting care, but I suspect the open bone will just be a source of reinfection.

Jay

@Jay Hemdal , I know you said you were 100% sure the fish would not regrow its tail, but could you take a look and see if the tail could be regrown at this point where I don’t have to worry about reinfection? Thanks

Before:
F91FD222-F205-4743-84F7-FCA42D044CA8.jpeg


Current:

5823F906-B2BA-47E4-B5B3-3A9EB42810B5.jpeg
 
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Jay Hemdal

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That looks really good! There is obvious re-growth taking place! It looks to me that you were right on the cusp of the infection reaching bone, and you stopped it just in time. I think it will continue to heal, but may take a month of so. Just watch for a relapse.

Jay
 

Steve180

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Hi,
I’ve had all my fish in QT for about 50 days now. They finished 30 days of copper at 2.5ppm and looked healthy.

I moved them to a new tank with fresh water after copper. Then started 1 round of Prazi + metro + kana.

I was planning a 2nd round of prazi next, but now the fish are only on kana + metro. Not sure why the clownfish is turning purple/brown and the blue hippo’s tail is rotting. The blue hippo was scratching on a rock constantly last week.


Tank Parameters are in line. Ammonia was high for 2 days during tank change, but is now 0.

Feeding twice a day: green + purple nori, Larrys Reef Frenzy, Mysis Shrimp and mixing in TDO pellets every couple days.



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I had the same thing happen to my clownfish losing half of his color. Also my flame angel lost most of his tail n fins too
 

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reef_1

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We discussed my method as we watched my fish some of which are over 30 years old.

In the "47+ years" your own tank thread you say on the first page the oldest fish you have is 16 years old and that was in 2011, so where the 30+ years is coming from?

Have you bought a 29 year old fish and added to the tank a year ago? :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

"The oldest fish I have now is a 16 year old fireclown. My oldest fish was an 18 year old cusk eel that I killed by accident." 2011 Feb by Paul B
 

Paul B

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I don't really know, but if I said the fish was 16 years old in 2011 he would be about 28 today. It will be 2023 in 7 weeks so I could be off by 2 or 3 years. I normally say I lost his birth certificate so shoot me for those two years. :anguished-face:

I also have not kept a log book since about 1990 so I have no records of him and just going by old pictures and my senile memory. But then, that fish may be 40. Who knows. :cool:

The LFS I got him in has been out of business for about 30 years. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I know I can see him here in this old photo all the way to the left under that bubble coral .



If you sift through all the things I posted for the last 50 years on forums and paper magazines you will probably find many things that are a year, two or three years off.
If my birthday wasn't on Christmas I would forget that....Or do you want to see my birth certificate?
 
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pixelhustler

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I don't really know, but if I said the fish was 16 years old in 2011 he would be about 28 today. It will be 2023 in 7 weeks so I could be off by 2 or 3 years. I normally say I lost his birth certificate so shoot me for those two years. :anguished-face:

I also have not kept a log book since about 1990 so I have no records of him and just going by old pictures and my senile memory. But then, that fish may be 40. Who knows. :cool:

The LFS I got him in has been out of business for about 30 years. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I know I can see him here in this old photo all the way to the left under that bubble coral .



If you sift through all the things I posted for the last 50 years on forums and paper magazines you will probably find many things that are a year, two or three years off.
If my birthday wasn't on Christmas I would forget that....Or do you want to see my birth certificate?
To each their own, as every tank is a different universe in its own. But I’ve had a lot of success with Paul B’s approach, and lost more fish in quarantine than I did after I completely change their feeding habits.

I like to think that I was doing an okay job carefully testing copper digitally and using the safer Copperpower, but many of my fish had their diseases flare up during quarantine and not make it past the 30 day copper QT. I live in Southern California, minutes away from some of the largest wholesalers. A lot of the fish we buy have gone from the ocean to overseas facilities to a plane to US wholesalers to the fish store and to our tanks in a matter of days. So that might play a big role in how they fare in QT for me.

If my new fish make it through the first 48-72h they are verylikely to thrive. There has been ich in my tank for at least a couple of years and I’ve bought fish with ich this year but I haven’t had it show on established fish yet. I did buy 8 black storm clowns last year and they died one by one in a matter of days, eventually spreading to my established pair and killing it. The rest of my fish were unbothered but the no-QT method it’s obviously not without risk.

I buy mixed seafood (clams, squid, octopus, fish, shrimp, etc) nori and fish oil; blend everything together and feed several times a day. Plus pellets but only to supplement. I got 4/5 leopard wrasses to eat and establish, and all the pipefish and mandarins I’ve kept ate frozen. My pipefish even hatched babies!

But I don’t disagree with QT either, it definitely has and will continue to save fish. I just haven’t had much luck with it, but I can definitely recommend making your own fish food:beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
 

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brandon429

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I'm not being mean pls don't take this bad

Reefbeef has a podcast that bad qt is a bad practice

Paul B devoted a notable section of his book to showing an ideal quarantine: low light, ultra clear water, no waste littering the tank for rot, diverse surface area such as clay pots, some coarse but very light substrate /a tiny degree doesn't impact meds and can be changed out each go. Some plastic plants, a hiding cave of plastic...

Truly supportive quarantine looks like a cleaner, smaller, miniature version of the reef tank

I scanned page one for pics of this qt, to see if fish are stressed during the holding

How does the pic on page one square against the description of correct qt

20221201_052805.jpg

Are they not being harmed while in quarantine? I'm seeing brown water, high waste loading, low variation surface area... opposite?

Is quarantine really just about getting zero ammonia during meds
 

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