Fish dying...

[jrlafrance]

OK, so I've been away from the hobby for a few years, but had a very successful 125 setup prior to this. Recently I wanted to get back into the hobby even though I'm in the military. I purchased a 22 gallon bowfront with attached overflow in the back of the tank. I drilled a hole in the back of the tank and included a 10 gallon sump in the stand. I had seeded the tank with some live rock from a buddy and used some probidio to help with the cycle. We stocked the tank and everything was great...until 3-4 weeks later when everything dies within 1 week. Realized that nitrates were through the roof on my test kit (API). The only survivors were a dwarf yellow eel and scarlet cleaner shrimp.

I let the tank be for almost 4 weeks, doing water changes (sometimes up to 14 gallons at a time), waiting for the nitrates to die down. I was running a carbon/GFO reactor and a biopellet reactor during this time. I decided to turn off the biopellet, and the nitrates started going down pretty quickly. After these 4 weeks, nitrates were still a little high (20-40ppm). We decided to add another 20 gallon tank to the system, and another 20 gallon sump. Plumbing it all together to create a larger more stable water system. In the new sump I put a Reef Octopus skimmer, still ran the carbon/GFO reactor, but did not run the biopellet reactor yet. After a couple more weeks, nitrates were still 20-40ppm so we decided to add some fish. Everything was good for 2-3 weeks. Nitrates were still in the same range, so I decided to run the biopellet reactor again to help eliminate them. For this system (20+20+10+22 gallons of water), I used 3/8 cup of biopellets. After a week of running, fish are dying again. All other water parameters are where they need to be (pH 8.2-8.4, ammonia=0, nitrites=0, water temp ~80 F). I'm at a loss as to why they are dying, they were all eating great, skimmer is skimming lots of green stuff, I still do water changes weekly (every other day recently)! Does anyone see something that I'm missing to help save the rest of my fish?

 

[reeferfoxx]

My guess is the eel?

 

[Fish Werx]

What kind/size of fish? How big is the eel? My first instinct is the eel possibly?

 

[MMreef]

The only survivors were a dwarf yellow eel and scarlet cleaner shrimp.

This.

 

[DLHDesign]

First; I'm sorry for your loss and frustration. I hope we can help!

How are they dying? Are there any signs of disease or issues? Small white dots? Overly-red gills?

Do you have pictures of any of the deceased? Those help to diagnose the problem.

 

[jrlafrance]

My guess is the eel?

What kind/size of fish? How big is the eel? My first instinct is the eel possibly?

Well, the eel is a Dwarf Yellow Eel, no more than 12" long. The fish that have died are goldflake angel (~1.5-2"), 3-spot damsels (1-1.5"), 2 black ice clowns (2-2.5"), potters angel (2.5", not in the tank at the same time as the goldflake), potters wrasse (3"), valentine puffer (2-2.5").

Is there something I don't know about the eel that secretes something that kills fish?

 

[jrlafrance]

First; I'm sorry for your loss and frustration. I hope we can help!

How are they dying? Are there any signs of disease or issues? Small white dots? Overly-red gills?

Do you have pictures of any of the deceased? Those help to diagnose the problem.

Unfortunately I don't have pics, threw the fish out as soon as I saw them dead. The first wipeout very well could have been ich. The fish had small white dots on them. I wasn't able to quarantine them quick enough. After the ich outbreak, the lone survivors were shrimp and eel, but I let the tank alone with no fish for over 4 weeks. That should have been long enough for the ich to die, right?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Well, the eel is a Dwarf Yellow Eel, no more than 12" long. The fish that have died are goldflake angel (~1.5-2"), 3-spot damsels (1-1.5"), 2 black ice clowns (2-2.5"), potters angel (2.5", not in the tank at the same time as the goldflake), potters wrasse (3"), valentine puffer (2-2.5").

Is there something I don't know about the eel that secretes something that kills fish?

Whether the fish can swallow them or not, they have a hard time seeing. The bite can cause bacterial infections.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Unfortunately I don't have pics, threw the fish out as soon as I saw them dead. The first wipeout very well could have been ich. The fish had small white dots on them. I wasn't able to quarantine them quick enough. After the ich outbreak, the lone survivors were shrimp and eel, but I let the tank alone with no fish for over 4 weeks. That should have been long enough for the ich to die, right?

Ich life cycle can last up to 60 days.

 

[Maritimer]

Unfortunately I don't have pics, threw the fish out as soon as I saw them dead. The first wipeout very well could have been ich. The fish had small white dots on them. I wasn't able to quarantine them quick enough. After the ich outbreak, the lone survivors were shrimp and eel, but I let the tank alone with no fish for over 4 weeks. That should have been long enough for the ich to die, right?

Four weeks isn't long enough to starve out ich ... the longest recorded period between encystment and hatching of tomonts is more like 72 days, so the usual recommended fallow period is 76 days. Was the eel out of the tank during the four months? Eels are (fairly specialized) fish, so I'd suspect that ich could find a home to chug along in inside the eel's gills.

~Bruce

 

[Humblefish]

My guess is the eel?

^^ Possible; if its Gymnothorax miliaris those are known fish eaters.

 

[jrlafrance]

^^ Possible; if its Gymnothorax miliaris those are known fish eaters.

Our particular eel is G. melatremus Dwarf Golden Eel from Hawaii. I've not seen the eel be aggressive at all to any of the fish so far, and as I stated above, fish from both tanks have died.

Four weeks isn't long enough to starve out ich ... the longest recorded period between encystment and hatching of tomonts is more like 72 days, so the usual recommended fallow period is 76 days. Was the eel out of the tank during the four months? Eels are (fairly specialized) fish, so I'd suspect that ich could find a home to chug along in inside the eel's gills.

~Bruce

I didn't know about the lifecycle being that long. Also from what I've read, ich is a fish parasite and doesn't affect eels. Maybe we are both right in that ich can live in/on the eel and not affect it, but remain alive? Can cleaner shrimp be a carrier?

 

[Humblefish]

Our particular eel is G. melatremus Dwarf Golden Eel from Hawaii. I've not seen the eel be aggressive at all to any of the fish so far, and as I stated above, fish from both tanks have died.

Well, then this suggests a fast killing disease such as velvet may be the culprit: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[melypr1985]

After the ich outbreak, the lone survivors were shrimp and eel, but I let the tank alone with no fish for over 4 weeks. That should have been long enough for the ich to die, right?

The eel staying the tank would have kept the life cycle of whatever parasite (I'm betting velvet) alive to kill any new additions. Eels are very resilient and it's very possible that he would remain alive and be able to pass on the disease.

 

[jrlafrance]

Alright, I don't have access to Chloroquine phosphate, however the local fish stores do have copper. Can the eel be safely treated with copper with the rest of the fish that are alive? I'm assuming the cleaner shrimp, snails and hermits will need to be placed in a separate tank? Can I take the rockwork out, put it in a Rubbermaid trash can with heater and pump, can I put the shrimp and inverts in there, and totally change out the whole water column? Would I need to do anything with my existing sand, or just let it sit fallow?

 

[melypr1985]

Alright, I don't have access to Chloroquine phosphate, however the local fish stores do have copper. Can the eel be safely treated with copper with the rest of the fish that are alive? I'm assuming the cleaner shrimp, snails and hermits will need to be placed in a separate tank? Can I take the rockwork out, put it in a Rubbermaid trash can with heater and pump, can I put the shrimp and inverts in there, and totally change out the whole water column? Would I need to do anything with my existing sand, or just let it sit fallow?

The only thing that needs to be removed from the tank is the eel (and any other fish that might have been added and are still alive). Everything else including shrimp, rocks, anemones, corals, starfish, snails and crabs will stay and the tank will run fallow for 76 days to be safe. fallow is only referring to a fishless tank.

It can be tricking getting an eel through copper. I wouldn't recommend it, but if it's your only choice I would go with coppersafe and raise the levels as slowly as you can. Since he hasn't died from velvet yet, I think it will be ok to take this time.

 

[Humblefish]

It can be tricking getting an eel through copper. I wouldn't recommend it, but if it's your only choice I would go with coppersafe and raise the levels as slowly as you can. Since he hasn't died from velvet yet, I think it will be ok to take this time.

IME; most eels eventually wither away & die in copper. Even the ones that start out acting fine.

I would really try to get CP for this situation: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

 

[melypr1985]

IME; most eels eventually wither away & die in copper. Even the ones that start out acting fine.

I would really try to get CP for this situation: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

I've never kept one in copper for longer than a week or two, so I bow to your experience. Don't risk it! Start begging vets for CP.

 

[Zack K]

Well, then this suggests a fast killing disease such as velvet may be the culprit: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

+1

 

[jrlafrance]

In light of fish dying and the fact that we are escrow on a new house, I've consolidated the fish left alive into a single tank and started dosing with Ich Attack. It's an all natural medication, invert safe but it does take awhile. Our house should close mid-April, so I'll continue to dose at least till then. The puffer and tang look better already, so hopefully they'll continue to get better. Once we've moved and gotten settled in I'll set up a real QT tank and quarantine if they need further attention.

Thanks for all the info and help!