Fishless Cycle Help

[howme127]

Ok, I will start this saying I’m not new to cycling a tank but I am new to fishless cycling. Also, I’m not new to keeping salt or freshwater tanks but haven’t in over 10 years.

Now, I’m 50 days in cycling a 70 gallon system. My method for cycling has been to add Fritz TurboStart 900 and to feed dr Tim’s ammonium chloride. I started it off by feeding 2ppm of ammonium chloride and cut back to roughly 1/2 that to keep ammonia up to 2ppm. Cycle progress was spot on but then seemed to flatten its progress. I read that high nitrates could cause a stall and I watched a symposium where dr tim said that there’s not much bacteria in the water column so I opted for a water change. I got nitrates from over 100ppm down to 10ppm and switched my feeding to raising ammonia to 2ppm and wait to see how long it would take to cycle out ammonia and nitrites to 0 before feeding again. Cycle sped up but now for the last 2 weeks I’ve consistently cycled both ammonia and nitrites to 0 in 45-48hrs but haven’t seen any progress toward cycling out 2ppm ammonia and nitrites in 24hrs. Also I’m back up over 100ppm of nitrates and I am testing nitrates after I see nitrites at 0ppm to not interfere with the nitrate test.

Is it overkill to get to 24hrs? Should I continue with another water change to lower nitrates and continue feeding of ammonium chloride? Or should I do my double 50% water change to lower nitrates and call it done?

Also, it will be fishless for another 80 days as I’ll be QTing everything but plan on using media that has been in the DT sump since day one for the QT and I want to make sure I have enough established bacteria when I pull it out to go in QT. (Nice run on!!)

 

[lafarrow]

This will be where brandon429 jumps in and tells you your tank is well beyond cycled. Look up or search new cycling rules. I do not have extensive experience but I can tell you from perusing these forums for a while you are likely fine and can stop with the ammonia.

check this out:

Updated Cycling Science thread 2020

The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled. you...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[howme127]

This will be where brandon429 jumps in and tells you your tank is well beyond cycled. Look up or search new cycling rules. I do not have extensive experience but I can tell you from perusing these forums for a while you are likely fine and can stop with the ammonia.

check this out:

Updated Cycling Science thread 2020

The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled. you...

www.reef2reef.com

Ok to be honest I’ve only skimmed for now but I’m going to really read as I feel like this hits on a lot of my suspicions and questions. I can without a doubt cycle as much as 4ppm of ammonium chloride in 24 hours. Just takes another 24 for the nitrites to cycle out.

thanks for the link!

 

[Reef.]

Sounds to me you have over did the ammonia.

You need ammonia at zero, then do a large water change, then see where you are at but stop with the ammonia and feeding as you are just prolonging the cycle.

 

[howme127]

Sounds to me you have over did the ammonia.

You need ammonia at zero, then do a large water change, then see where you are at but stop with the ammonia and feeding as you are just prolonging the cycle.

So the ammonia is reading 0 right now (within 24hrs) but will take until tomorrow to read 0 nitrites(the other 24hrs). Also I made sure the ammonia never went over 2ppm and, during the last 3ish weeks, waited for it to hit zero before it was fed again. Is it your opinion to stop all feeding even though there will be no “natural” feeding source for another 80 days?

 

[Reef.]

So the ammonia is reading 0 right now (within 24hrs) but will take until tomorrow to read 0 nitrites(the other 24hrs). Also I made sure the ammonia never went over 2ppm and, during the last 3ish weeks, waited for it to hit zero before it was fed again. Is it your opinion to stop all feeding even though there will be no “natural” feeding source for another 80 days?

yes, you are cycled, you will need to do a large water change as you have fed so much your nitrates are sky high.

Your test kit may only read up to 100 so don’t worry too much if you do a large water change and it doesn’t go down much, you may be much higher than 100,you may need a couple to get to a reasonable level of say 20.

 

[howme127]

I guess I should say, I know it’s cycling, and has been, for me I had a goal of growing a decent colony of bacteria that could cycle out at least 2ppm of ammonia and nitrites to 0 before calling it done. I can read up to 160ppm of nitrates, but from already doing the water change before , it takes 2 50% water changes to get to about 10ppm.

so, yes I know it’s cycling, but wanted to grow a decent colony. But then I also have 80+ Days before livestock will be in. Do I feed the bacteria during this time? Just reduced greatly?

yes, you are cycled, you will need to do a large water change as you have fed so much your nitrates are sky high.

Your test kit may only read up to 100 so don’t worry too much if you do a large water change and it doesn’t go down much, you may need a couple to get to a reasonable level of say 20.

 

[howme127]

Just to clarify, I say cycling verses cycled as, well, it’s always cycling!

 

[Reef.]

I said you are cycled not cycling, once you are cycled the bacteria in the tank doesn’t go away, it will lay dormant until more ammonia is added i.e the fish, if that makes you uncomfortable you can add a little ammonia once a month or food but it’s not needed.

 

[howme127]

I said you are cycled not cycling, once you are cycled the bacteria in the tank doesn’t go away, it will lay dormant until more ammonia is added i.e the fish, if that makes you uncomfortable you can add a little ammonia once a month or food but it’s not needed.

Got ya. Yeah, I know you said cycled but I was hoping to catch you with my quick post saying I know it’s cycled, but I was saying cycling as it’s kinda continuous.

But thank you for taking the time to answer as that helps with where I was under the impression you needed to keep the bacteria feed to keep it going or alive.

 

[Reef.]

Got ya. Yeah, I know you said cycled but I was hoping to catch you with my quick post saying I know it’s cycled, but I was saying cycling as it’s kinda continuous.

But thank you for taking the time to answer as that helps with where I was under the impression you needed to keep the bacteria feed to keep it going or alive.

right got you, yeah it’s hard to accept but bacteria are tough little buggers, once they are there it’s hard to get rid.
Look at all these bottled bacteria you can buy, they are on shelves for months, but once added to the tank come back to life.
Enjoy getting the tank to good parameters now, and as you are lugging all that water around thank yourself for adding all that food and ammonia

 

[lapin]

So the ammonia is reading 0 right now (within 24hrs) but will take until tomorrow to read 0 nitrites(the other 24hrs). Also I made sure the ammonia never went over 2ppm and, during the last 3ish weeks, waited for it to hit zero before it was fed again. Is it your opinion to stop all feeding even though there will be no “natural” feeding source for another 80 days?

Big water change to reduce nitrate. No need to feed algae. I would ghost feed the tank. A few pellets per week should be fine for the 80 days. Then maybe a week before adding your big fish load add some ammonia to boost the bacteria and get them all fired up. Then big water change to wipe out nitrates than add fish.