Flashing chocolate mimic tang. Prazi while organic carbon dosing?

[blazin'reefer]

hi, i have a chocolate tang that has been in my tank for about 6 months, every so often i see him rubbing against the sand and also possible twitching but im not sure. It seems it has started flashing more than usual as i watched it for the last hour after feeding and it probably did it 6 times, only against the sand.

Im thinking it could be flukes but i am from canada so getting prazi isnt easy, not sure if its even possible but i might try to order from amazon US. If i did manage to get some though (which is like 50/50 chance) is it ok to dose prazi while carbon dosing? i read that bacteria consume the prazi and consume oxygen and the carbon dosing has the bacteria levels extremely high in the tank which sounds like it could be dangerous? Also do high nutrients cause any issues with prazi?

the tang is the only fish that is flashing and all are eating a ton of different foods. Thanks for any help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

hi, i have a chocolate tang that has been in my tank for about 6 months, every so often i see him rubbing against the sand and also possible twitching but im not sure. It seems it has started flashing more than usual as i watched it for the last hour after feeding and it probably did it 6 times, only against the sand.

Im thinking it could be flukes but i am from canada so getting prazi isnt easy, not sure if its even possible but i might try to order from amazon US. If i did manage to get some though (which is like 50/50 chance) is it ok to dose prazi while carbon dosing? i read that bacteria consume the prazi and consume oxygen and the carbon dosing has the bacteria levels extremely high in the tank which sounds like it could be dangerous? Also do high nutrients cause any issues with prazi?

the tang is the only fish that is flashing and all are eating a ton of different foods. Thanks for any help.

Are you able to get ruby rally pro ?
These signs do suggest flukes and some behaviors with flukes are rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
You can also try a 5 minute freshwater dip in water the same temperature as display tank and return fish to display tank. This not only offers temporary relief but you can then check the bottom of that container for what looks like sesame seeds or fish scales. If you see that - Flukes it is.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

hi, i have a chocolate tang that has been in my tank for about 6 months, every so often i see him rubbing against the sand and also possible twitching but im not sure. It seems it has started flashing more than usual as i watched it for the last hour after feeding and it probably did it 6 times, only against the sand.

Im thinking it could be flukes but i am from canada so getting prazi isnt easy, not sure if its even possible but i might try to order from amazon US. If i did manage to get some though (which is like 50/50 chance) is it ok to dose prazi while carbon dosing? i read that bacteria consume the prazi and consume oxygen and the carbon dosing has the bacteria levels extremely high in the tank which sounds like it could be dangerous? Also do high nutrients cause any issues with prazi?

the tang is the only fish that is flashing and all are eating a ton of different foods. Thanks for any help.

That’s a good point about prazi and carbon dosing. I’ve never mixed the two, but Prazipro would be more risky than plain prazi would be - 95% of Prazipro is a glycol solvent that is consumed by the same bacteria as used in carbon dosing. I have lost fish when using ethanol as a solvent for prazi.
Flashing in fish is often gyrodactylus skin flukes, but it can also be a reaction to free floating detritus in the water.
If I were you I’d work on getting some praziquantel powder in and just have it ready. If you decide to use it, you should discontinue the carbon dosing. The only other really effective treatment for flukes is hyposalinity.
Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Are you able to get ruby rally pro ?
These signs do suggest flukes and some behaviors with flukes are rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
You can also try a 5 minute freshwater dip in water the same temperature as display tank and return fish to display tank. This not only offers temporary relief but you can then check the bottom of that container for what looks like sesame seeds or fish scales. If you see that - Flukes it is.

I haven't heard of ruby rally pro before, i will definitely look into it but if it has any medicine in it then i doubt it as our government has made it difficult to even get copper. Basically only allowed natural remedies unless prescribed.

Thanks for the advice on all of the symptoms, thats honestly a better list than most websites have lol. He definitely has had periods of rather fast breathing, shaking his head and darting around aswell, i just attributed it to aggression towards the other fish though since those symptoms are not often but maybe they are more likely from flukes.

The fish physically looks fine, other than some scratches that usually heal within a day or 2. I did freshwater dip it when i first got it, but after 2 minutes he was freaking out and smashing into the container and then played dead and started breathing rapidly so i removed him right when i saw that. There was some stuff at the bottom of the container but i wasnt sure if it was rock/sand debree or flukes.

Only attempted to catch him once more like a month later and it freaked out smashing into the tank again just trying to catch him so i have been hessitant about fw dipping him again, with flashing increasing i may try again though if it is still considered a good idea.

 

[blazin'reefer]

That’s a good point about prazi and carbon dosing. I’ve never mixed the two, but Prazipro would be more risky than plain prazi would be - 95% of Prazipro is a glycol solvent that is consumed by the same bacteria as used in carbon dosing. I have lost fish when using ethanol as a solvent for prazi.
Flashing in fish is often gyrodactylus skin flukes, but it can also be a reaction to free floating detritus in the water.
If I were you I’d work on getting some praziquantel powder in and just have it ready. If you decide to use it, you should discontinue the carbon dosing. The only other really effective treatment for flukes is hyposalinity.
Jay

When i was first reading about it all i definitely thought if i did them both it would suffocate them from depleted oxygen, glad i decided to check here first lol.

Wow i had no clue that prazipro has ethanol as a solvent, That definitely would have been bad, thank you for letting me know that before i purchased it and possibly crashed my tank. Appreciate the listing of correct steps i should consider too. So would something like prazi-cleanse by fritz be the right stuff? It is a powder form or prazi.

I may consider hypo if all else fails just dont currently have a hospital tank set up and have never done it before.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

When i was first reading about it all i definitely thought if i did them both it would suffocate them from depleted oxygen, glad i decided to check here first lol.

Wow i had no clue that prazipro has ethanol as a solvent, That definitely would have been bad, thank you for letting me know that before i purchased it and possibly crashed my tank. Appreciate the listing of correct steps i should consider too. So would something like prazi-cleanse by fritz be the right stuff? It is a powder form or prazi.

I may consider hypo if all else fails just dont currently have a hospital tank set up and have never done it before.

Sorry, Prazipro doesn’t use ethanol, it uses a glycol….but that is consumed by bacteria like ethanol is.
I’m pretty sure that the Fritz product is plain prazi, but I’m not 100% on that.
Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Sorry, Prazipro doesn’t use ethanol, it uses a glycol….but that is consumed by bacteria like ethanol is.
I’m pretty sure that the Fritz product is plain prazi, but I’m not 100% on that.
Jay

oh, alright thanks for clarifying. I probably read it wrong reguarding the ethanol. Reguardless though if glycol is metabolized by the bacteria in the same way then i still see it potentially causing an over dose of carbon if done while carbon dosing, so definitely good to know beforehand.

Alright cool, i will take a look at the fritz prazi cleanse ingredients tonight and if it is just praziquantel then i will order it to have on hand, incase i do need it. Hopefully it makes it over the border if i do haha.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Sorry, Prazipro doesn’t use ethanol, it uses a glycol….but that is consumed by bacteria like ethanol is.
I’m pretty sure that the Fritz product is plain prazi, but I’m not 100% on that.
Jay

alright so i just looked up the ingredients for the Fritz prazi-cleanse and there are inactive ingredients listed: silicon dioxide, dextrose, maltodextrin.

could the dextrose be a problem aswell since it is a sugar and therefore another source of carbon or would it likely be such a small amount since its a powder form and only 1 gram packs per 20 gallons of water?

If it is a problem the only other option on amazon is wholesale koi farms pure 100% prazi-quantel powder but that one costs alot more and says right on the front do not use with inverts or in reef tanks for some reason.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

alright so i just looked up the ingredients for the Fritz prazi-cleanse and there are inactive ingredients listed: silicon dioxide, dextrose, maltodextrin.

could the dextrose be a problem aswell since it is a sugar and therefore another source of carbon or would it likely be such a small amount since its a powder form and only 1 gram packs per 20 gallons of water?

If it is a problem the only other option on amazon is wholesale koi farms pure 100% prazi-quantel powder but that one costs alot more and says right on the front do not use with inverts or in reef tanks for some reason.

Yes - both the maltodextrin and the dextrose would be decomposed by bacteria as a carbon source. It depends on how much it contains though.... the silicon dioxide would be just a trace amount.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Yes - both the maltodextrin and the dextrose would be decomposed by bacteria as a carbon source. It depends on how much it contains though.... the silicon dioxide would be just a trace amount.

Jay

ok thanks again Jay. I believe each 1 gram pack for 20 gallons contain 190 mg of prazi so maybe around 800mg or 0.8 of a gram of the dextrose and maltodextin if the silicone dioxide is only trace amounts.

If i do order the prazicleanse would it be safer if i wait for a few days or a week after pausing the carbon dosing so the bacteria population die back a bit first? and also will i need to start again at square one for carbon dosing after or can i just go back to the same amount i was dosing before? I havent ordered yet as im still not 100% on the best option on amazon.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ok thanks again Jay. I believe each 1 gram pack for 20 gallons contain 190 mg of prazi so maybe around 800mg or 0.8 of a gram of the dextrose and maltodextin if the silicone dioxide is only trace amounts.

If i do order the prazicleanse would it be safer if i wait for a few days or a week after pausing the carbon dosing so the bacteria population die back a bit first? and also will i need to start again at square one for carbon dosing after or can i just go back to the same amount i was dosing before? I havent ordered yet as im still not 100% on the best option on amazon.

Sorry - I can't advise you on that, I've never started/stopped carbon dosing in response to prazi treatments.....just a guess, once the carbon source has been metabolized by bacteria, it would be safe to dose prazi (at the same point in time that would you add your carbon dose.

However, the big question is this: heterotrophic bacteria that consume prazi may be the same group that consumes prazi. It has been shown in studies that multiple doses of prazi in a tank will grow more bacteria that then consume the prazi faster and faster, before it has a chance to work. If your carbon dosing bacteria can do the same thing, you may find that prazi treatments on a carbon dosed tank will be pretty much useless.


Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

When i was first reading about it all i definitely thought if i did them both it would suffocate them from depleted oxygen, glad i decided to check here first lol.

Wow i had no clue that prazipro has ethanol as a solvent, That definitely would have been bad, thank you for letting me know that before i purchased it and possibly crashed my tank. Appreciate the listing of correct steps i should consider too. So would something like prazi-cleanse by fritz be the right stuff? It is a powder form or prazi.

I may consider hypo if all else fails just dont currently have a hospital tank set up and have never done it before.

The reduction in oxygen and appetite is minimal and adding an air stone will help during treatment.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Sorry - I can't advise you on that, I've never started/stopped carbon dosing in response to prazi treatments.....just a guess, once the carbon source has been metabolized by bacteria, it would be safe to dose prazi (at the same point in time that would you add your carbon dose.

However, the big question is this: heterotrophic bacteria that consume prazi may be the same group that consumes prazi. It has been shown in studies that multiple doses of prazi in a tank will grow more bacteria that then consume the prazi faster and faster, before it has a chance to work. If your carbon dosing bacteria can do the same thing, you may find that prazi treatments on a carbon dosed tank will be pretty much useless.


Jay

No problem, I finally ordered the fritz prazi-cleanse yesterday and it says expected dec.23 so hopefully it arrives.

What i am thinking is if it does i will still stop carbon dosing like 2 days before (so im completely sure it is all metabolized). I will also stop during treatment aswell as do a water change and try to remove as much bacteria build up that i can before each treatment.

Yes that is what i was wondering. Not sure if it makes a difference but the carbon source i have been using is vinnegar and am currently up to around .5 ml per gallon per day. Im thinking i will still give it a try though since the tang definitely is flashing more than last month and I will up the oxygen of the tank. I should also note that the tang is the only fish with symptoms, though i did have a clown fish die last month with what looked like swimbladder disease.

If the treatment is not successful due to the bacteria i will look into setting up a hypo-saline tank with the 30 cube i have in my room if the tang lives that long and i dont nuke my tank in the process too lol.

 

[blazin'reefer]

The reduction in oxygen and appetite is minimal and adding an air stone will help during treatment.

alright sounds good, thanks. i just ordered the prazi yesterday. I will add an airstone and make sure my powerheads are clean too so they are working at full capacity aswell. I may also add a bit of garlic to the nori to help with any minimal appetite supression aswell.