Flow and Dinos or Diatoms? What would you do?

[JonnyTorch]

Hey all. I've been researching diatoms and Dinos all the last two days. Here's where I'm at:

I neglected my tank for a few months And had a bloom of what I thought was cyano. I wiped it out with chemiclean and an air stone in 3 days.

Well a month later it's back, so I'm not sure it's cyano, as it disappears at night. Everywhere I'm reading says Dinos disappear at night, but many other sources are saying Diatoms can, and do, that also.

What are you guys thinking this is? I have a photo of the flow setup of my aquarium. Where it's happening to is definitely in the corner with the least amount of flow (it's not covering the rocks or all over the tank) but it's in the corner and somewhat the front. I vacuumed the sand there to make it pristine white and within the day it starts to brown again. It's not snot like, no air bubbles which leads me to believe it's in low flow areas, most likely diatoms, but they do disappear at night.

My RODI water was measuring 1000+ TDS in my ATO bucket, I freaked out. Something to do with the container. I have been buying salt mix from the LFS measuring 0 TDS before they mix it, he showed the meter. I changed our containers of my buckets and now my TDS is measuring 0 in my ATO bucket and straight from the RODI unit. I have since been mixing my own salt (RedSea Blue Bucket) with my 0 TDS water (only one water change since mixing my own salt.)

Does this sound/look like diatoms? Is this a flow related issue I'm leaning towards? If so maybe I should add a wavemaker on that side? Pictures included of setup, flow and sand + sand in the morning and during the day.

Tank is 9 months:

Parameters
Temp 78
Salinity 1.026
Alk 10
Cal 405
Mg 1280
Nitrates 10-15
Phos .1-.25

Thanks!

Flow setup:

In the morning:

During the day:

Daytime with White's on:

It looks much uglier in person.. what would you do?

 

[Lavey29]

Looks like dinos which is common after chemiclean treatment. Need a cheap microscope to positively ID it. Ibwould just siphon it out with weekly water changes and add a bunch of pods and a conch to sift the sand. Doesn't look to bad.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Looks like dinos which is common after chemiclean treatment. Need a cheap microscope to positively ID it. Ibwould just siphon it out with weekly water changes and add a bunch of pods and a conch to sift the sand. Doesn't look to bad.

Thank you. The thing is, it was in the tank before chemiclean. I used chemiclean to try to get rid of it, but it came back a month later. Is it common that dinos are in the dead spots only? That dinos have no air bubbles and don't look like snot?

I have a cheap microscope, but I don't think it gets to 100x

 

[JonnyTorch]

Looks like dinos which is common after chemiclean treatment. Need a cheap microscope to positively ID it. Ibwould just siphon it out with weekly water changes and add a bunch of pods and a conch to sift the sand. Doesn't look to bad.

I take that back. I do have a Microsoft I can use. 100-1000x. Is there an example or link you know of to compare dinos to detritus?

I will be taking a look later today, if not tomorrow.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey all. I've been researching diatoms and Dinos all the last two days. Here's where I'm at:

I neglected my tank for a few months And had a bloom of what I thought was cyano. I wiped it out with chemiclean and an air stone in 3 days.

Well a month later it's back, so I'm not sure it's cyano, as it disappears at night. Everywhere I'm reading says Dinos disappear at night, but many other sources are saying Diatoms can, and do, that also.

What are you guys thinking this is? I have a photo of the flow setup of my aquarium. Where it's happening to is definitely in the corner with the least amount of flow (it's not covering the rocks or all over the tank) but it's in the corner and somewhat the front. I vacuumed the sand there to make it pristine white and within the day it starts to brown again. It's not snot like, no air bubbles which leads me to believe it's in low flow areas, most likely diatoms, but they do disappear at night.

My RODI water was measuring 1000+ TDS in my ATO bucket, I freaked out. Something to do with the container. I have been buying salt mix from the LFS measuring 0 TDS before they mix it, he showed the meter. I changed our containers of my buckets and now my TDS is measuring 0 in my ATO bucket and straight from the RODI unit. I have since been mixing my own salt (RedSea Blue Bucket) with my 0 TDS water (only one water change since mixing my own salt.)

Does this sound/look like diatoms? Is this a flow related issue I'm leaning towards? If so maybe I should add a wavemaker on that side? Pictures included of setup, flow and sand + sand in the morning and during the day.

Tank is 9 months:

Parameters
Temp 78
Salinity 1.026
Alk 10
Cal 405
Mg 1280
Nitrates 10-15
Phos .1-.25

Thanks!

Flow setup:

In the morning:

During the day:

Daytime with White's on:

It looks much uglier in person.. what would you do?

Need brighter white intensity to Identify as I see diatoms and cyano. two clues while important to identify with a microscope is your level of nitrates and phophates when tested and level of absence in the morning after lights out

 

[Lavey29]

I take that back. I do have a Microsoft I can use. 100-1000x. Is there an example or link you know of to compare dinos to detritus?

I will be taking a look later today, if not tomorrow.

https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/dinoflagellateid12_12_2019-pdf.1324729/

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you. The thing is, it was in the tank before chemiclean. I used chemiclean to try to get rid of it, but it came back a month later. Is it common that dinos are in the dead spots only? That dinos have no air bubbles and don't look like snot?

I have a cheap microscope, but I don't think it gets to 100x

Dinos dont have to have bubbles nor snotty appearance but rather its level of surface coverage and often golden/brown in appearance. Cyano is more matted in appearance and can be reddish0purle, yellow/green and even bluish under lighting

 

[Lavey29]

Thank you. The thing is, it was in the tank before chemiclean. I used chemiclean to try to get rid of it, but it came back a month later. Is it common that dinos are in the dead spots only? That dinos have no air bubbles and don't look like snot?

I have a cheap microscope, but I don't think it gets to 100x

I'm just speculating based on your visual pictures and tank treatment you posted coupled with it goes away at night time.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Need brighter white intensity to Identify as I see diatoms and cyano. two clues while important to identify with a microscope is your level of nitrates and phophates when tested and level of absence in the morning after lights out

So my nitrates and phosphates are giving a clue to cyano and dinos? I thought dinos bottom out those two? I'm not sure. Thanks. I can post a picture with all whites:

As stated, it's only in this corner of the tank, not on rocks or glass, just the sand in this corner. Chemiclean a month ago, and back. Would you add more flow? If it's diatoms, what would you do, and I'd it's dinos, what would you do? I've seen so many different opinions I'm kind of lost.

Will try to get the microscope working today or tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[Dan_P]

Hey all. I've been researching diatoms and Dinos all the last two days. Here's where I'm at:

I neglected my tank for a few months And had a bloom of what I thought was cyano. I wiped it out with chemiclean and an air stone in 3 days.

Well a month later it's back, so I'm not sure it's cyano, as it disappears at night. Everywhere I'm reading says Dinos disappear at night, but many other sources are saying Diatoms can, and do, that also.

What are you guys thinking this is? I have a photo of the flow setup of my aquarium. Where it's happening to is definitely in the corner with the least amount of flow (it's not covering the rocks or all over the tank) but it's in the corner and somewhat the front. I vacuumed the sand there to make it pristine white and within the day it starts to brown again. It's not snot like, no air bubbles which leads me to believe it's in low flow areas, most likely diatoms, but they do disappear at night.

My RODI water was measuring 1000+ TDS in my ATO bucket, I freaked out. Something to do with the container. I have been buying salt mix from the LFS measuring 0 TDS before they mix it, he showed the meter. I changed our containers of my buckets and now my TDS is measuring 0 in my ATO bucket and straight from the RODI unit. I have since been mixing my own salt (RedSea Blue Bucket) with my 0 TDS water (only one water change since mixing my own salt.)

Does this sound/look like diatoms? Is this a flow related issue I'm leaning towards? If so maybe I should add a wavemaker on that side? Pictures included of setup, flow and sand + sand in the morning and during the day.

Tank is 9 months:

Parameters
Temp 78
Salinity 1.026
Alk 10
Cal 405
Mg 1280
Nitrates 10-15
Phos .1-.25

Thanks!

Flow setup:

In the morning:

During the day:

Daytime with White's on:

It looks much uglier in person.. what would you do?

I wouldn’t do anything for this amount of growth.

 

[Lavey29]

So my nitrates and phosphates are giving a clue to cyano and dinos? I thought dinos bottom out those two? I'm not sure. Thanks. I can post a picture with all whites:

As stated, it's only in this corner of the tank, not on rocks or glass, just the sand in this corner. Chemiclean a month ago, and back. Would you add more flow? If it's diatoms, what would you do, and I'd it's dinos, what would you do? I've seen so many different opinions I'm kind of lost.

Will try to get the microscope working today or tomorrow. Thanks!

Diatoms need nothing they go away on their own. Whit light picture Still has the appearance of dinos. Chemiclean will often bottom out nutrients which then results in dinos after the treatment. Microscope will let you know. It's a mild case. Add a bunch of pods.

 

[JonnyTorch]

I wouldn’t do anything for this amount of growth.

A month ago it was so brown you couldn't see the sand. This is after my attempts lol

 

[JonnyTorch]

Thanks guys. Although minor, I want a clean sandbed like some of you all do I might add a small wavemaker near the area, but I will add a bunch of pods and maybe a 1.5" tiger conch that will hopefully make it better. The 1000+ TDS top off I was using probably didn't help.. but at least it's reading 0 TDS now. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

So my nitrates and phosphates are giving a clue to cyano and dinos? I thought dinos bottom out those two? I'm not sure. Thanks. I can post a picture with all whites:

As stated, it's only in this corner of the tank, not on rocks or glass, just the sand in this corner. Chemiclean a month ago, and back. Would you add more flow? If it's diatoms, what would you do, and I'd it's dinos, what would you do? I've seen so many different opinions I'm kind of lost.

Will try to get the microscope working today or tomorrow. Thanks!

Thanks for brighter pics. I would not react yet as this may be diatoms and a reduction in white intensity will help alone. Add a few snails such as astrea, margarita, nassarius and trochus to help clean this up. As for zero readings and dino, often when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Thanks for brighter pics. I would not react yet as this may be diatoms and a reduction in white intensity will help alone. Add a few snails such as astrea, margarita, nassarius and trochus to help clean this up. As for zero readings and dino, often when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

Thank you..my whites are set at 8% and blues at 55% on a RedSea 50. The the tank is 15 inches high, and the light is about 8 inches or 9 inches from the surface of the water.

Hopefully it is diatoms. But it's just annoying to get rid of them. I will look into more snails. Currently I only have 1 golf ball sized Turbo, and 1 nassarious snail. How many would you recommend of each snail for a 24 gallon? Thanks again, and I'm definitely picking up a 2" conch on Tuesday.

 

[Lavey29]

Thank you..my whites are set at 8% and blues at 55% on a RedSea 50. The the tank is 15 inches high, and the light is about 8 inches or 9 inches from the surface of the water.

Hopefully it is diatoms. But it's just annoying to get rid of them. I will look into more snails. Currently I only have 1 golf ball sized Turbo, and 1 nassarious snail. How many would you recommend of each snail for a 24 gallon? Thanks again, and I'm definitely picking up a 2" conch on Tuesday.

If your tank is more then a few months old it ain't diatoms most likely

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you..my whites are set at 8% and blues at 55% on a RedSea 50. The the tank is 15 inches high, and the light is about 8 inches or 9 inches from the surface of the water.

Hopefully it is diatoms. But it's just annoying to get rid of them. I will look into more snails. Currently I only have 1 golf ball sized Turbo, and 1 nassarious snail. How many would you recommend of each snail for a 24 gallon? Thanks again, and I'm definitely picking up a 2" conch on Tuesday.

Three of each which I listed and reduce blue for two weeks to 40%. Is this tank at or near a window?
Diatoms can affect both a new tank and even a mature tank especially if new rock, sand or tap water is added, as well as the Di resin cartridge for RO unit becoming expired

 

[SonOfaGoat]

I've been battling dinos since October. Depending on the variant will affect the treatment. For me what has helped was a 3 day black out while running uv, that did a ton after not making progress and losing a lot of my corals and some livestock. Make sure you have activated carbon to soak up the toxins. Now I'm dosing silicate in the morning with microbacter 7 and zeobak. This is an attempt to make diatoms bloom and feed other bacteria. At night I run uv just incase. Mine come back in the day but not as bad now. I added a chunk of established rock as well today so we will see how that helps. Dinos is a slow battle, but mine is much much more worse than yours.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Three of each which I listed and reduce blue for two weeks to 40%. Is this tank at or near a window?
Diatoms can affect both a new tank and even a mature tank especially if new rock, sand or tap water is added, as well as the Di resin cartridge for RO unit becoming expired

@SonOfaGoat

The tank is 9 months old, already came and went with "new tank syndrome" - but it's not near a window, no new addition of rocks or sand etc. The only thing maybe I can think of was silicates or high TDS of the water (for some reason the water in my top off bucket was 1000+, while the unit produced 0 TDS, so i got new buckets and it reads 0 now)

I'll definitely grab the snails. I've read about peroxide dosing as well during a blackout. Not too sure about it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@SonOfaGoat

The tank is 9 months old, already came and went with "new tank syndrome" - but it's not near a window, no new addition of rocks or sand etc. The only thing maybe I can think of was silicates or high TDS of the water (for some reason the water in my top off bucket was 1000+, while the unit produced 0 TDS, so i got new buckets and it reads 0 now)

I'll definitely grab the snails. I've read about peroxide dosing as well during a blackout. Not too sure about it.

That would do it