Flukes Or Something Else?

[flyfisher2]

I'm at a loss here. I'll explain.
I brought home my very first fish for my cycled 150. No life in tank other than bacteria which was introduced in September. The following fish are present in the tank.

CBB
sixline wrasse
PowderBrown tang
Scopas tang
Lamarck Angel
Coral Beauty

All look clean and have been eating very well. Issue: Every once in a while the Powder Brown, Scopas, Lamark and Coral Beauty scratch against a rock.
I've reduced salinity to 1.009 and ATO maintains that level. I've used Milwaukee MA887 and a handheld refractometer to verify. This level has been in effect since Oct 31st. Fish continue to scratch. They eat fine, look fine. Actively chase each other. On the 4th of this months(just over 48 hrs) I dosed Prazipro at recommended dosage. I did not raise the Salinity. Water clouded and the fish lost appetite. They are still eating but not as eagerly. Skimmer is running without cup and I directed powerheads to surface so I don't see an oxygen issue.
But the fish are still scratching on occasion. Based on information read on forums here elsewhere the time frame with hypo alone should have sufficed to eradicate the Flukes? The addition of Prazipro going into 72 hours soon has done little more than cloud the water and surpress the appetite of the tank inhabitants.
Please open my eyes to what I'm not seeing here.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

Hypo resistant flukes or hypo resistant ich. Or, you treated them and they still have skin irritation. Can wait and see. Also Can try TTM, copper and / or FW dip, fenbendazole. These are not all reef safe so read accordingly.

 

[flyfisher2]

Hypo resistant flukes or hypo resistant ich. Or, you treated them and they still have skin irritation. Can wait and see. Also Can try TTM, copper and / or FW dip, fenbendazole. These are not all reef safe so read accordingly.

thanks for the reply. I did the fresh water dip first day to all fish going into tank. As I mentioned, I'm seeing NO external spots, labored breathing, they arent hanging at the surface, no clamped fins. Just the flashing. It blows my mind that a week at 1.009 SG and almost 72 hours of Prazipro and I'm still seeing these symptoms. Keep in mind that the Powder Brown has been in the system for three weeks and the rest for two.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

I have a convict tang that is still flashing after copper x 2 rounds, prazi x 4, hypo 1 month, fenben x 2 baths, Metjylene blue dip, formalin dip. So I’m not sure if there is some super fluke or super ich around now. I’ve asked many experts and they aren’t sure. May need microscope diagnosis. You can take a skin scraping with a microscope slide and gently scrape the bottom of fish and lateral line if you’re brave. You can also wait snd see if it improves. Hypo doesn’t treat velvet maybe tou have a supressed mild case of velvet. If it worsens in Would do copper.

 

[flyfisher2]

I have a convict tang that is still flashing after copper x 2 rounds, prazi x 4, hypo 1 month, fenben x 2 baths, Metjylene blue dip, formalin dip. So I’m not sure if there is some super fluke or super ich around now. I’ve asked many experts and they aren’t sure. May need microscope diagnosis. You can take a skin scraping with a microscope slide and gently scrape the bottom of fish and lateral line if you’re brave. You can also wait snd see if it improves. Hypo doesn’t treat velvet maybe tou have a supressed mild case of velvet. If it worsens in Would do copper.

And you're convinced that after all those treatments the only possibilities are some form of Ich or Flukes?

 

[Reef AquaCult]

And you're convinced that after all those treatments the only possibilities are some form of Ich or Flukes?

No. It might be some immune condition or other cause for skin irritation. Your case however multiple fish are affected to its highly likely to be infectious.

make sure you also check for stray voltage.

 

[flyfisher2]

No. It might be some immune condition or other cause for skin irritation. Your case however multiple fish are affected to its highly likely to be infectious.

make sure you also check for stray voltage.

I installed a titanium grounding wire a couple weeks ago. Agreed on the multiple fish being affected. I'll maintain the 1.009 salinity and dose Prazipro at the 5 day mark again.
I'm concerned about the other tanks in my fish room. How do you feel about Prazipro in an sps aquarium? I've been trying to find specific info and most say it's safe to use in reefs.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

I installed a titanium grounding wire a couple weeks ago. Agreed on the multiple fish being affected. I'll maintain the 1.009 salinity and dose Prazipro at the 5 day mark again.
I'm concerned about the other tanks in my fish room. How do you feel about Prazipro in an sps aquarium? I've been trying to find specific info and most say it's safe to use in reefs.

Prazi is usually ok in reef. I’ve used it before and didn’t have any major issues. Alk might rise bc corals not as active. If you have acros keep a close eye on alk/ pH

 

[Jay Hemdal]

thanks for the reply. I did the fresh water dip first day to all fish going into tank. As I mentioned, I'm seeing NO external spots, labored breathing, they arent hanging at the surface, no clamped fins. Just the flashing. It blows my mind that a week at 1.009 SG and almost 72 hours of Prazipro and I'm still seeing these symptoms. Keep in mind that the Powder Brown has been in the system for three weeks and the rest for two.

Hyposalinity for Neobenedenia takes 30 days, I run it for 35. As mentioned though, there are some nasty brackish water flukes that get into the supply chain once in a while, hypo won't handle those. Prazi will manage them, but you need to dose 2x, 10 days apart (in case they are an egg laying species of fluke). That said, I'd be wary of that since you had a poor reaction already. The issue isn't the praziquantel, it is the solvent that is used - it serves as a food source for heterotrophic bacteria, which in turn causes cloudiness and removes oxygen from the water. Still, I dose prazipro all the time and I don't get this reaction...

Jay

 

[flyfisher2]

Hyposalinity for Neobenedenia takes 30 days, I run it for 35. As mentioned though, there are some nasty brackish water flukes that get into the supply chain once in a while, hypo won't handle those. Prazi will manage them, but you need to dose 2x, 10 days apart (in case they are an egg laying species of fluke). That said, I'd be wary of that since you had a poor reaction already. The issue isn't the praziquantel, it is the solvent that is used - it serves as a food source for heterotrophic bacteria, which in turn causes cloudiness and removes oxygen from the water. Still, I dose prazipro all the time and I don't get this reaction...

Jay

Thank you Jay, I'm 72 hours in and the Salinity is 1.10 today. The water is cloudy and th
e Lamarck has lost all interest in feeding. The Powder Brown does a 'partial Scratch'. Weird to describe, goes through the motion but doesn't really touch the stone.
When would you do the partial water change? I have water ready but wasn't sure if I should wait a bit longer.

Prazi is usually ok in reef. I’ve used it before and didn’t have any major issues. Alk might rise bc corals not as active. If you have acros keep a close eye on alk/ pH

Thanks for the reply. I'm holding on that as of now. Just a bit concerned because of the proximity of one tank to the other in the same room.

 

[flyfisher2]

I just checked parameters
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 15-20?
PH 7.6

 

[Reef AquaCult]

I’m not sure about prazi plus concurrent hyposalinity. Usually it’s one or the other. You should read up on if it changes the potency and if it’s recommended. I looked briefly but can’t find a lot. Keep the hypo going and observe symptoms closely.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just checked parameters
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 15-20?
PH 7.6

Ph a tad low - What test kits rae you using?

 

[flyfisher2]

Ph a tad low - What test kits rae you using?

Salifert

 

[flyfisher2]

I’m not sure about prazi plus concurrent hyposalinity. Usually it’s one or the other. You should read up on if it changes the potency and if it’s recommended. I looked briefly but can’t find a lot. Keep the hypo going and observe symptoms closely.

I've been reading for days, LOL.Not seeing anything other than some reefers feeling it may be more stressful for the fish to do both concurrently while others say the've done it with no ill effect. . The process of raising salinity over a period of 5 days and the inconclusive info as to negative impact didn't seem as enough for me to wait. As it stands, I did a 30 gallon water change this afternoon and the tank looks much clearer. I also moved a couple power heads to the surface to heavily aereate the water. The fish seem livelier and more interested in feeding. Pics to follow

 

[flyfisher2]

Salifert

I'll check it shortly. Should be higher since the water change.

 

[flyfisher2]

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay, I'm 72 hours in and the Salinity is 1.10 today. The water is cloudy and th
e Lamarck has lost all interest in feeding. The Powder Brown does a 'partial Scratch'. Weird to describe, goes through the motion but doesn't really touch the stone.
When would you do the partial water change? I have water ready but wasn't sure if I should wait a bit longer.

Thanks for the reply. I'm holding on that as of now. Just a bit concerned because of the proximity of one tank to the other in the same room.

Fish going off feed during a treatment is serious and going in the wrong direction. Are you monitoring ammonia closely?
If it’s been 24 hours or more since you dosed Prazipro, you can do water changes.
I’ve never dosed Prazipro in brackish conditions but I use it in fresh and salt, so there should be no reason not to do it here, but I cannot explain the bad reaction you’ve had.
Jay

 

[flyfisher2]

Fish going off feed during a treatment is serious and going in the wrong direction. Are you monitoring ammonia closely?
If it’s been 24 hours or more since you dosed Prazipro, you can do water changes.
I’ve never dosed Prazipro in brackish conditions but I use it in fresh and salt, so there should be no reason not to do it here, but I cannot explain the bad reaction you’ve had.
Jay

 

[flyfisher2]

Just checked again.