Foxface help

[Vwluv10338]

I picked this guy up at the store for cheap because it looked like it was about to die from what looked like black ich. When I got it home it kept color changing. After 10 minutes of being out in the qt tank I can see the spots again but when it was in the bag it’s skin looked smooth. Anyone have thoughts?

the two pics in the bag were taken 2 minutes apart

 

[Nate Chalk]

Alot of fish will discolor with stress, not saying this is your issue.

pure guess

 

[vetteguy53081]

Spots are stress related and will soon stabilize. Keep fish under low light the first 24 hours allowing it to adjust to its' new environment.

 

[Rmckoy]

Looks like common foxface stress changing colour .

Putting his pj’s on before bed .

but I think looking at the picture I can see what you’re referring to .
@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal are the professionals ….

 

[vetteguy53081]

I picked this guy up at the store for cheap because it looked like it was about to die from what looked like black ich. When I got it home it kept color changing. After 10 minutes of being out in the qt tank I can see the spots again but when it was in the bag it’s skin looked smooth. Anyone have thoughts?

the two pics in the bag were taken 2 minutes apart

Almost forgot- Black ich is present. The spots you see on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon and Brooklynella.
Prazi pro not guaranteed to work but Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks. But however you can give the fish a freshwater bath to start with and follow with a formalin bath (general cure works well) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks.
Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic turbellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium and for this reason, I would consider going fallow (72 days of no fish (hosts) in the tank. I personally would go 90 days.

 

[terraincognita]

+1 they go "camo" when they're scared. Some foxfaces color changes are super drastic, They will also do this same thing when they sleep. They huddle up to, next to, or under some rocks and go "camo", they'll be stiff as a board.

 

[terraincognita]

Almost forgot- Black ich is present. The spots you see on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon and Brooklynella.
Prazi pro not guaranteed to work but Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks. But however you can give the fish a freshwater bath to start with and follow with a formalin bath (general cure works well) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks.
Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic turbellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium and for this reason, I would consider going fallow (72 days of no fish (hosts) in the tank. I personally would go 90 days.

Missed op's original mention of black ich xD

 

[vetteguy53081]

Those black spots look like coloration to me in the photo.

If they're black ich OP they'll be raised bumps, and obviously not under the scales or seeming to be part of the actual flesh and skin coloration. Very noticeable in person, hard to see in photos sometimes.

Depending on size of worms, may not necessarily be raised. BUT on the other hand- this could be anemone sting from store tank which would show same markings

 

[DrZoidburg]

Also not thinking this black ich or flukes. They would not disappear, and reappear in a matter of 10 minutes.

 

[Vwluv10338]

Current pic

Fish was never in my DT. Picked it up from the store like this. Trying to decide if a FW dip would help or just add more stress or just add General Cure to the QT water. It is in there with a fairy wrasse and two cardinals out of the same tank.

 

[Auquanut]

Following along. Since I'm absolutely horrible at disease/parasite identification, I would have immediately thought black ich. Other than the spots, he looks pretty healthy. Has he eaten?

As far as the color change, yeah... they do that when stressed, and should be expected with his change of environment. My one spot foxface used to go cammo at the drop of a hat.

Just one more thought. Having your adult libations right outside the tank is probably adding to the poor guy's stress. If it were me, being soooo close and not being able to take the occasional nip would drive me crazy.

 

[Vwluv10338]

Update:
I did a FW dip but nothing seemed to come off. I dosed the tank with General Cure so I guess it’s just a waiting game now.

Following along. Since I'm absolutely horrible at disease/parasite identification, I would have immediately thought black ich. Other than the spots, he looks pretty healthy. Has he eaten?

As far as the color change, yeah... they do that when stressed, and should be expected with his change of environment. My one spot foxface used to go cammo at the drop of a hat.

Just one more thought. Having your adult libations right outside the tank is probably adding to the poor guy's stress. If it were me, being soooo close and not being able to take the occasional nip would drive me crazy.

My girlfriend didn’t want the qt tank set up on the dining room table again so I had to set it up in my brewing area in the basement. Had to move lots of empty wine bottles. I have 14 gallons of wine in carboys from last year that still needs to be bottled

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also not thinking this black ich or flukes. They would not disappear, and reappear in a matter of 10 minutes.

If you look at picture 1 and 2, and trace the location of the black spots in picture 2, the same area in picture 1 has a light halo. I've never seen this, but there is something on the skin in both pics.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Current pic

Fish was never in my DT. Picked it up from the store like this. Trying to decide if a FW dip would help or just add more stress or just add General Cure to the QT water. It is in there with a fairy wrasse and two cardinals out of the same tank.

I wouldn't do a FW dip until the fish has stabilized for 48 hours or so. That number of turbellarian worms on a foxface won't be immediately fatal.

Praziquantel won't really work on this disease if it is turbellarians. These worms are often "self limiting" they go away on their own. It is those cases that lead people to the conclusion that their prazi treatment worked.

There seems to be three species of parasite that causes these black spot; two turbellarians and a digenean trematode. It also may be that the digenean, is the one that is self-limiting (lack of intermediate host) and might also be helped by prazi.

Here is an excerpt from my upcoming disease book:

Turbellarian Infection (a.k.a. black spot disease, black ich, tang disease)

Turbellarians are a group of worms related to trematodes. They often go undiagnosed as a cause of active infections in fishes except for one group: Paravortex sp.

Cause and symptoms
Since this disease is often seen in newly acquired fish, the suspicion is that the fish bring the disease with them and become infected due to the transport stress they endure.

This parasite causes very distinctive black spots on some species of fish, most notably tangs and surgeonfish. Other fish that may become infected with Paravortex include butterflyfishes, angelfishes, gobies, and jawfishes.

The worm encysts under the fish’s skin, and the fish deposits black melanin pigment as a reaction to the infection. Since these spots are so apparent to even the casual observer, this disease is easily diagnosed, even by beginning aquarists.

Often self-limiting
The problem is that this sometimes causes the aquarist to overreact and begin a treatment that actually might be more harmful than the disease itself. It turns out that many cases of Paravortex infections are self-limiting; unless tank conditions are very poor, the worms often die out and the infection goes away on its own.

Only if the spots increase greatly in number (more than 20 spots on a fish) or the fish begin showing other signs of ill health should a treatment be undertaken.


Cleanliness counts
Some aquarists have reported that careful siphon-cleaning of the aquarium substrate and improving overall cleanliness in the aquarium helps to reduce this infection. It is possible that Paravortex has a non-parasitic, free-living form at one stage of its life cycle and that careful cleaning will remove the parasite at that point.

Some turbellarians are tougher to diagnosis
There are other turbellarians that do not cause melanistic skin changes in fish and are much more difficult to diagnose. Ichthyophaga is one type known to infect fishes and can cause significant fish loss in crowded conditions. Diagnosis of this parasite generally requires a skin scrape.

It’s also noteworthy that treatment with freshwater dips may contort the worm’s body shape so much that positive identification is difficult. In some cases, no real symptoms are seen until fish loss occurs. Under the microscope, look for an oval-shaped worm with a pair of dark eyespots.

Treatment options
Because turbellarians cause a fairly deep-seated infection, they are difficult to remove using freshwater dips or other topical treatments. Other treatment options that have been utilized with varying degrees of effectiveness include:

Praziquantel at 2 mg/l is a safe, commonly used treatment for this malady, but for some reason, it is not always effective.

A 45-minute formalin dip at 166 ppm can be effective, but then the fish must be moved to a non-infected aquarium.

Chloroquine at 15 ppm has been shown to be an effective treatment, but some fish may experience toxic reactions at this dose.

Organophosphate pesticides, such as Trichlorfon (Dylox), have been the treatment of choice for many years but cannot be recommended due to their potential toxicity to humans.

Copper treatments are ineffective, at least at the concentrations well tolerated by fish.

Jay Hemdal

 

[DrZoidburg]

If you look at picture 1 and 2, and trace the location of the black spots in picture 2, the same area in picture 1 has a light halo. I've never seen this, but there is something on the skin in both pics.

Jay

I guess something pigmentation. The one I don't see go away is in big spot on left side. Figure maybe something imbedded in skin?

 

[Vwluv10338]

@Jay Hemdal

I ended up doing a FW dip last night and adding general cure to the water. This morning all the black spots seem to have a protruding white spot in the middle. Maybe a dead parasite? One pic here is when I caught it sleeping in its camo colors and the next is a minute later where you can see the spots.