Freak accident or something else?

[arking_mark]

Background:
Drove down to Florida to get 2 Orange Spotted Filefish that were thriving for 2 years in captivity.

Since then, I've added 2 more OSFs. Both went through strick quarantine and are eating well and fattening up.

About a month ago, one of Florida OSFs (female) had what I thought was a freak accident. In the morning, it was eating and swimming like normal. I had my back to the tank working for a couple of hours. I went to feed the fish and the female OSF from FI was head first in a powerhead where it sucks in water. I stopped the powerhead removed the fish. There was no physical damage to the fish, but it was no longer breathing. I chalked this up to freak accident.

Fast forward to today, and the male OSF from FI did almost the same thing. Only difference was it was just up against that same powerhead and I caught it much earlier after feeding. While it's still breathing, it's completely unresponsive. I have it in an in tank acclimation box to see if it will recover. This is my fattest dominant male that eats like crazy.

It's my understanding that heathy fish shouldn't have any issues with powerheads.

This is a 108gal tank and the offending powerhead was an Octopulse 2.

Reef Octopus Octo Pulse 2 Flow Pump (Pump Only)

PUMP ONLYMax Flow: 1,600gph | 5~10watts | 20 - 80+ gallonsApplicable for glass or acrylic aquariums up to 1/2 in.

www.coralvue.com

I also have Blue Striped Pipefish that have no issues with that powerhead.

@Jay Hemdal Any thoughts?

 

[NowGlazeIT]

What other fish do you keep in that display?

 

[arking_mark]

What other fish do you keep in that display?

The OSF stopped breathing...so now just:
2 x OSFs
1 x Candy Basslet
2 x Goldenheaded Sleeper Gobys
1 x Clown
1 x Powder Brown Tang
2 x Blue Striped Pipefish
2 x Possum Wrasse
1 x Blue Star Wrasse
1 x Green Striped Goby
1 x Two Spot Goby
1 x Organge Striped Goby w/ Pistol Shrimp
2 x Freshwater Molly

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Background:
Drove down to Florida to get 2 Orange Spotted Filefish that were thriving for 2 years in captivity.

Since then, I've added 2 more OSFs. Both went through strick quarantine and are eating well and fattening up.

About a month ago, one of Florida OSFs (female) had what I thought was a freak accident. In the morning, it was eating and swimming like normal. I had my back to the tank working for a couple of hours. I went to feed the fish and the female OSF from FI was head first in a powerhead where it sucks in water. I stopped the powerhead removed the fish. There was no physical damage to the fish, but it was no longer breathing. I chalked this up to freak accident.

Fast forward to today, and the male OSF from FI did almost the same thing. Only difference was it was just up against that same powerhead and I caught it much earlier after feeding. While it's still breathing, it's completely unresponsive. I have it in an in tank acclimation box to see if it will recover. This is my fattest dominant male that eats like crazy.

It's my understanding that heathy fish shouldn't have any issues with powerheads.

This is a 108gal tank and the offending powerhead was an Octopulse 2.

Reef Octopus Octo Pulse 2 Flow Pump (Pump Only)

PUMP ONLYMax Flow: 1,600gph | 5~10watts | 20 - 80+ gallonsApplicable for glass or acrylic aquariums up to 1/2 in.

www.coralvue.com

I also have Blue Striped Pipefish that have no issues with that powerhead.

@Jay Hemdal Any thoughts?

I agree, healthy fish usually don’t get impinged on power heads or pump intakes. However, did this pump cycle on and off? Maybe it caught the filefish when it turned on? However, I’d say the pipefish would be at much greater risk for that sort of thing. Head first is also making me wonder - like if it was looking there and the pump suddenly turned on - ouch!
Jay

 

[arking_mark]

I agree, healthy fish usually don’t get impinged on power heads or pump intakes. However, did this pump cycle on and off? Maybe it caught the filefish when it turned on? However, I’d say the pipefish would be at much greater risk for that sort of thing. Head first is also making me wonder - like if it was looking there and the pump suddenly turned on - ouch!
Jay

It's always on.

1st time, I figured freak accident.

2nd time, I'm suspicious of something else.

Both fish were in my tank for almost 3 months...and previously 2 years in a fellow reefers tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It's always on.

1st time, I figured freak accident.

2nd time, I'm suspicious of something else.

Both fish were in my tank for almost 3 months...and previously 2 years in a fellow reefers tank.

I agree - pump always on - not likely to be the cause. Not sure what else it could be, because that isn't a symptom of anything specific, just a fish that is not able to negotiate obstacles properly. Nothing of note with the other two?

Jay

 

[Wyvern]

Not to rule out voltage leak or disease, but I had a similar thing happen with a fresh water HOB, I found one barb stuck on the intake dead. The next day I witnessed one swim by and POW! Stuck on the intake breaking it's spine.

The intake was too small for the amount of flow and once they got caught, there was no escape.

I changed the HOB and no deaths to this day, 3 years later.

 

[arking_mark]

I agree - pump always on - not likely to be the cause. Not sure what else it could be, because that isn't a symptom of anything specific, just a fish that is not able to negotiate obstacles properly. Nothing of note with the other two?

Jay

Other than being dead the fish looked totally healthy. Great color, thick, full belly...if it wasn't a fish, I'd suspect foul play by poison.

 

[arking_mark]

Not to rule out voltage leak or disease, but I had a similar thing happen with a fresh water HOB, I found one barb stuck on the intake dead. The next day I witnessed one swim by and POW! Stuck on the intake breaking it's spine.

The intake was too small for the amount of flow and once they got caught, there was no escape.

I changed the HOB and no deaths to this day, 3 years later.

I'm already looking into replacing the Octopulse...it's less than 6 months old, but who knows.

 

[arking_mark]

@Jay Hemdal The only thing I can think of is toxin. I did add 6 Frags that morning. WD, Green Slimer, Pickachu, Copps 24k, Pink Cadillac, and The Thing. They got a Bayer Complete bath and then dipped cleaned in two consecutive cups of tank water before being added to the tank.

The OSFs love to pick at my SPS. Could it have ingested some Bayer that didn't get cleaned off the frags? Could Bayer Complete have this effect on my OSf?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal The only thing I can think of is toxin. I did add 6 Frags that morning. WD, Green Slimer, Pickachu, Copps 24k, Pink Cadillac, and The Thing. They got a Bayer Complete bath and then dipped cleaned in two consecutive cups of tank water before being added to the tank.

The OSFs love to pick at my SPS. Could it have ingested some Bayer that didn't get cleaned off the frags? Could Bayer Complete have this effect on my OSf?

Could be, but I’ve no knowledge of ingestion toxicity of that….
Jay

 

[eag]

Since the fish has no visible injury, it seems likely that the fish was already dead or dying and simply got sucked up to the powerhead, rather than the powerhead being the cause of death.

 

[Wyvern]

@Jay Hemdal The only thing I can think of is toxin. I did add 6 Frags that morning. WD, Green Slimer, Pickachu, Copps 24k, Pink Cadillac, and The Thing. They got a Bayer Complete bath and then dipped cleaned in two consecutive cups of tank water before being added to the tank.

The OSFs love to pick at my SPS. Could it have ingested some Bayer that didn't get cleaned off the frags? Could Bayer Complete have this effect on my OSf?

There are theories about it slowly leaching back into tank.
Perhaps some fish are more easily poisoned.

IIRC that stuff directly attacks central nervous system, and why it is fairly safe to corals.

I would double up on carbon and monitor the situation.

 

[arking_mark]

Since the fish has no visible injury, it seems likely that the fish was already dead or dying and simply got sucked up to the powerhead, rather than the powerhead being the cause of death.

A very reasonable assumption and could very well be the case. The question still remains. What caused the death? Same fish, same powerhead, no good clues.

 

[arking_mark]

1st OSF died Aug 23rd. I don't have anything I dipped and added on or around that date.

 

[Rtaylor]

That is strange. I have 6 osff and they don’t have any trouble with my jebao gyres….I’m a bit suspicious of the bayer since they do pick at sps…..maybe the coral absorbs a bit in its polyps and that poisoned your fish? Sorry for your loss.

just saw your note about the first one. Huh…really strange.

 

[arking_mark]

That is strange. I have 6 osff and they don’t have any trouble with my jebao gyres….I’m a bit suspicious of the bayer since they do pick at sps…..maybe the coral absorbs a bit in its polyps and that poisoned your fish? Sorry for your loss.

just saw your note about the first one. Huh…really strange.

Yeah. It's kinda crazy. I'm thinking the Beyer as well, but the 1st one doesn't line up with the theory.

 

[arking_mark]

The mystery deepens.

Today another fat and happy OSF has disappeared. No body this time.

Details:

• Very fat and healthy OSF 3" that actively eats dry and frozen foods.
• Been in the tank for 3 months
• Got up this morning and no sign of fish.

Thoughts:

• I don't think it jumped as there is a lid and I couldn't find a body. I can't rule this out as there are small gaps and I can't get behind the sand.
• I don't think it's a preditor in the tank as there are more vulnerable fish such as my Blue Striped Pipefish.
• No recently Beyer dipped coral this time.
• My 1.5" OSF is still doing OK. It mostly just eats Masstick and picks at coral.
• Cleanup crew may have gotten and disposed of the body before the morning. However, I don't have a large CUC and I would have thought I would find something.

Theory: With 3 OSFs dying mysteriously and no other fish affected, I'm thinking either something toxic to the OSFs or some OSF specific disease.

Questions:

• The OSFs pick at my coral. Could one of my coral be toxic to them?
• Could some food I'm feeding them be toxic to them?
• Any OSF-specific diseases?
• Any other ideas?
• Any other theories?

 

[eag]

Theory: With 3 OSFs dying mysteriously and no other fish affected, I'm thinking either something toxic to the OSFs or some OSF specific disease.

I think it's now highly likely that the powerheads aren't a factor. Do you have an ORP probe by chance? Anything interesting there?

Could some food I'm feeding them be toxic to them?

What's the longest one has survived in your tank? Any changes in diet?

 

[arking_mark]

I think it's now highly likely that the powerheads aren't a factor. Do you have an ORP probe by chance? Anything interesting there?



What's the longest one has survived in your tank? Any changes in diet?

No ORP monitor.

The longest is the lone survivor from Blue Zoo that went through my TTM. 4 months and only really eats the Masstick.