Frogspawn or Cristata Torch? ID please.

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
I've seen those torches in person; they're more pink than purple. The purple acrospheres that occur in Fimbriaphyllia is deeper and more blueish.
Credit: Sunnyside Corals
1736986130028.jpeg

None of my torches are from this vendor, and neither resemble this at all. The green and purple are drastically different.

Also feel that photo is edited to appear more vibrant

My bi color torch is also natural. It is possible that one heads traits and attributes contributed their color to the tips on the second head. They are connected - the color exists internally in this piece and can develop anywhere.
 

thamnasteroid

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Washington State
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
My torch is not from this vendor nor does it look like that at all. The green and purple are drastically different.

Also feel that photo is edited to appear more vibrant
No, I'm showing that photo to show the purple I'm talking about, not about your torch. The green and purple are drastically different because I am contrasting your pink-tip torch with the color morph of Fimbriaphyllia I am talking about, not comparing your torch as similar. Yeah, that photo is likely edited--didn't think about that when finding a photo; here is a less edited photo with the same morph I am talking about.
Credit: Vivid Aquariums
1736992737691.jpeg
 

thamnasteroid

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Washington State
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
I have not seen or read one thing that convinces me it’s a hammer.

I have not seen or read one thing that convinces me it’s not a type of torch
There's also the tentacle length; Euphyllia have longer tentacles than Fimbriaphyllia; your coral's tentacles are about regular length for a hammer, but too short for a cristata.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

Just another girl who likes fish
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
14,918
Reaction score
22,370
Location
Spring, Texas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
There's also the tentacle length; Euphyllia have longer tentacles than Fimbriaphyllia; your coral's tentacles are about regular length for a hammer, but too short for a cristata.
Hardly! It's called a "short torch" for a reason...
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Plenty of short stem torches out there
3F4B80B6-C93E-49DF-8FDD-00DC09EB3AA3.jpeg
DB0D7AA3-B5A3-4B18-BAE6-8C5393447B67.jpeg
B61D4F81-D1A2-4AB9-908D-172B9108B12D.jpeg


Also there are variables such as age and flow that affect tentacle length

Same torch different flow settings

AD18C710-7FEC-434B-AB25-7594FB591369.jpeg
A80BF526-E9D0-4A23-B3BA-5980DE0292EA.jpeg


I have a hammer that can extend tentacles 3” also
 

thamnasteroid

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Washington State
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Hardly! It's called a "short torch" for a reason...
Plenty of short stem torches out there
3F4B80B6-C93E-49DF-8FDD-00DC09EB3AA3.jpeg
DB0D7AA3-B5A3-4B18-BAE6-8C5393447B67.jpeg
B61D4F81-D1A2-4AB9-908D-172B9108B12D.jpeg


Also there are variables such as age and flow that affect tentacle length

Same torch different flow settings

AD18C710-7FEC-434B-AB25-7594FB591369.jpeg
A80BF526-E9D0-4A23-B3BA-5980DE0292EA.jpeg


I have a hammer that can extend tentacles 3” also
The tentacles of all those torches when compared to the polyp size are all longer than your coral. Tentacle length was one of the morphological characteristics used to delineate Fimbriaphyllia from Euphyllia in the reclassification study.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

Just another girl who likes fish
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
14,918
Reaction score
22,370
Location
Spring, Texas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The tentacles of all those torches when compared to the polyp size are all longer than your coral. Tentacle length was one of the morphological characteristics used to delineate Fimbriaphyllia from Euphyllia in the reclassification study.
You're gonna die on this hill I guess...
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
The tentacles of all those torches when compared to the polyp size are all longer than your coral. Tentacle length was one of the morphological characteristics used to delineate Fimbriaphyllia from Euphyllia in the reclassification study.
The one I showed is a baby with 1/2” heads
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
My point still stands. Compared to its polyp size, the tentacles are too short to be a Euphyllia.
Irrelevant as pointed out before because flow and age influence size

Please tell me the acceptable range of ratios for

(polyp diameter) : (tentacle length)

that is considered acceptable for both cristata torch and hammer, with sources cited, knowing that COTW is not fully trustworthy as proven prior.

I bet there is an overlap.
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Here is a very long stem hammer that doesn’t meet the norm and has “torch length” tentacles
E0EA36CE-CC76-4285-B1FD-D35BF1473DA3.jpeg


And here is the item in question, I suspect a torch variation that has short tentacles.
1A188074-F263-4895-8C21-BD6E40978E26.jpeg
 

thamnasteroid

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Washington State
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Here is a very long stem hammer that doesn’t meet the norm and has “torch length” tentacles
E0EA36CE-CC76-4285-B1FD-D35BF1473DA3.jpeg


And here is the item in question, I suspect a torch variation that has short tentacles.
1A188074-F263-4895-8C21-BD6E40978E26.jpeg
Bottom is not a torch. For the top one, when compared to the polyp size, is not actually that wrong.
Irrelevant as pointed out before because flow and age influence size

Please tell me the acceptable range of ratios for

(polyp diameter) : (tentacle length)

that is considered acceptable for both cristata torch and hammer, with sources cited, knowing that COTW is not fully trustworthy as proven prior.

I bet there is an overlap.
The corals you showed are not juvenile polyps, so the age is irrelevant. There isn't any source that mentions any specific ratio for tentacle length, as that trait was noticed very recently, only after the reclassification of Euphyllia.
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
I would show longer tentacles but it is in the process of splitting and not extending fully.

More reclassification nonsense.
And now all my lobos and things I’ve known as lobo for years are no longer lobo lol

So…formerly, could this be classified as torch
 

thamnasteroid

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Washington State
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
So…formerly, could this be classified as torch
Not really. Inflated oral discs and ovate/circular acrospheres in hammers are really only an in-captivity thing; I suspect your coral originally had flattened acrospheres. Could you possibly ask the original owner of your coral for a photo of it when it was freshly imported?
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Not really. Inflated oral discs and ovate/circular acrospheres in hammers are really only an in-captivity thing; I suspect your coral originally had flattened acrospheres. Could you possibly ask the original owner of your coral for a photo of it when it was freshly imported?

This is from a private collector who purchased the coral 20 years ago and has been growing it in his home ever since. About once every 1-2 years the colony grows bicolored heads from a single branch. He called it a natural graft. He fragged the branch and I bought it. Due to the duration of time from the original purchase there are no photos of it upon his obtaining it.
 

VintageReefer

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Messages
14,420
Reaction score
26,810
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Take a side-profile photo of the corallite when closed up. That is usually a good way to tell septal exsertness. From your top-down photo of it closed up, the amount of septal protrusion is closer to a hammer. The characteristic of exsert septa is not my guidelines, but an actual characteristic used to identify Cristata torches.
40DE7BEF-3238-4807-AE72-3FF1CA432454.jpeg
01F24DA5-0429-4F17-94A8-F95FE645267A.jpeg
4B0B65C0-C973-4BE5-92CF-749AF68E94D7.jpeg
3E12CD7B-5CE6-4B69-81AF-85BB19D9A821.jpeg
26176162-06B0-48AE-9429-B64F8F04BACA.jpeg
855775E2-82CB-4354-B5CD-B07A14B27DC4.jpeg
4F379F02-D290-45EE-B798-B597134BEADB.jpeg
EE455C62-4FFA-413A-9886-E3CA46320BC0.jpeg
 

TOP 10 Trending Threads

ON A SCALE FROM 1-10, HOW MUCH DO YOU LOVE REEFING?

  • 10 - It's one of the things I love most in life!

    Votes: 94 32.8%
  • 9

    Votes: 38 13.2%
  • 8

    Votes: 54 18.8%
  • 7

    Votes: 48 16.7%
  • 6

    Votes: 11 3.8%
  • 5 - I enjoy it, but I could live without it if I had to.

    Votes: 33 11.5%
  • 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • 1 - I'm not sure why I am still in this hobby...

    Votes: 6 2.1%
Back
Top