Frozen Food Killing Fish???

[MnFish1]

I know that you said the food you used was 'unopened' - but - check out this article - and consider the food may have thawed during shipping? https://www.talkfishy.com/resources...ion/373-the-pros-and-cons-of-frozen-fish-food

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It is entirely plausible that frozen food could cause acute fish health issues. For that to happen though, it would have needed to thaw out completely, for a long period while it was moving through the supply chain. The bacteria that grows can then produce endotoxins that could then poison the fish, even if the food was later refrozen. Key to this being the case would be an acute issue the FIRST time you fed the food out to a group of fish. If you fed it out prior with no issues, then that is a red herring.

I bought some mysids recently from a rinky dink LFS, and when I got to the car, I noticed the mysid cubes were all soft, their freezer wasn't keeping things frozen! I opened one cube and it stunk to high heaven. I just left and threw that mess out later, have never gone back there.

When I worked in the pet industry, it was common to offload frozen food from the delivery truck in the summer, and have it be totally thawed out. We'd chuck it into the freezer and sell it as normal. It was common knowledge that this process destroyed the already limited nutritional value of frozen brine shrimp - the refreezing ruptures the body with ice crystals and all the nutrient leak out (that doesn't make it toxic though, for that you need extensive bacterial growth).

Jay

 

[Debramb]

I did not introduce a sick fish. I’ve had the fish for several years. You clearly did not read that post. He died from an abscess. Nothing could have saved him. He lived for many years and his death was quick and unexpected. If you read the post, you’ll see that after opening him up we were able to determine what happened to him. It was not just “he died from a disease”. We learned something from his death and it was a group effort that was appreciated on this site.


Once again, his death has nothing to do with these 2 fish. These fish were healthy and eating and did not die to an abscess or rapid breathing or lack of eating. They had no symptoms while that other fish had many symptoms and a clear growth.

Everyone knows correlation doesn’t mean causation. Fish also swim in water. I said that since there is a repeat correlation there may be a causation. Not that there is one.

The fish have no signs of disease. I’ve checked all of them and the dead ones. I wouldn’t come to this forum and ask such an absurd question about frozen food if I hadn’t looked into other possible causes before hand. Water changes have been done and water parameters are great. If they were off, I would mention it. I have nothing to hide. Nothing points toward “disease”.

You keep saying disease disease disease even though there isn’t a single symptom or sign pointing to that. What you are saying is very broad and all encompassing. I can use that response on every infectious or disease post on this site. You’re certain its a disease but you don’t say which one. You don’t give a way of identifying it or ruling out other diseases. You don’t say how to go about treating such a “disease”. Just a simple he died from a disease, not helpful.

Diseases typically show symptoms. Spots, redness, discoloration, lack of appetite, swimming into a powerhead, upside down swimming, rapid breathing, bloated stomach, growths, fin issues, scratching, eye issues etc. If my pinktail trigger was smaller/skinnier and maybe a less dark color, I possibly could have noticed his growth. If what killed these 2 fish was a disease and what killed the single fish last time I fed frozen food a few weeks ago was the same disease, it would have to been a super lethal hidden disease that comes out of nowhere, without additions, and kills a healthy fish in 10 hours without any symptoms. I’ve never heard of anything like that, so I doubt it’s that.

You come across a bit strongly as a know it all. Pointing fingers, making assumptions, stating the obvious like correlation doesn’t mean causation, and making baseless conclusions like everything points toward disease and that I carelessly threw in a sick fish and am certain the food caused the deaths based off hope. Never said I was certain it was the food. I said it may be possible because of a repeat correlation and no other changes or additions. If I was certain, I wouldn’t be asking this forum about it. I thought maybe someone else had a rare case where there was a problem mixing a high pellet diet with occasional frozen food. Maybe their fish got constipated and died. Or their batch of whole mussels had a bacteria. Or their fish overate and exploded. I’ve read about people having problems with pellet companies and frozen food companies and live food.

An odd death like this may be due to an odd reason not just “yeah he died from a disease” or “clearly it was due to the sick fish you added” even though I didn’t add such fish. I could have came up with that elementary answer on my own. I didn’t just start this tank yesterday and throw a bunch of fish in there. I’ve successfully been doing this for over 15 years.

I’ve seen so many posts on this site where someone clearly shows a fish with ich, velvet, hole in the head, intestinal parasites, flukes etc and someone comes along and says “your fish has a disease”. Well of course it has a disease. Then others look at another symptomless fish and give the same broad answer “disease.” Be specific. Give direction. Ask questions. Ask for symptoms or abnormalities. Support your conclusion. If you don’t know the answer you don’t need to respond but if you don’t know and choose share your thoughts which are welcome and appreciated, you should give reasons to support your opinion.

So Sorry you lost you’re pets, it’s tough, on thing, could it be they gobbled the food? Triggers are mostly meat eaters right? Much to my displeasure , over the 30 yrs, my husband will put out a “lost” San Fran brine shrimp pack back in the freezer, not just ice, but freezer burn and into the feeding jar, then the tank! Debra

 

[MabuyaQ]

You can read about the abscess here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/major-emergency-pinktail-trigger.754505/
It’s a 3 page discussion.
Not likely that that same thing happened to these fish and they just dropped dead. That fish had a major noticeable problem and then slowly died within a day or 2. He was noticeably sick and breathing fast and not eating and had a huge growth. Completely different situation. But good suggestion!

Sorry to hear you are going through some bad times with your fish. Didn't know about this previous event so looked like 1+1. Clearly is a case of 1+X*Y, because food that has gone bad at some point will always smell bad once thawed again so I think the frozen food is unlikely as the cause because your nose would know.