G6 Upgrade Kit - Isn't the Price Absurd?

[Oldreefer44]

That doesn't mean it's the same company.


If you are referring to why Ryam likes the radions so much, it's simply because they are fantastic lights. Ryan isn't concerned with the costs when talking about his preferences as he gets these things for a very low cost, and when they do mention the lights, they actually calculated it as the best bang for buck for price per par compared to most other major lights they sold at the time. I dislike ecotech, but they make one of the best if not the best LED light on the market

Not making any judgement about Ryan just pointing out the facts. Anyone in upper management of a company always has one eye on their parent company. The board of directors of that parent company defines the direction of all of the companies that they own. Not judging; that's just how it works.

 

[JaimeAdams]

At first I was like Wow, $400, but the reef builders article pointed out that it is less than $4 a diode. Once I thought about that it didn't sound all that bad.

My G5s have been set up for maybe a month and still ramping up. I'm not looking to upgrade any time soon if ever. I got the deal of the century on them so I'm not feeling the remorse that some people are.

As a retailer I'm waiting to see some real data from the community. Ecotech says that an XR30 has a 48" spread, but the BRS video only showed PAR on a 24" cube. If the average person with a LPS dominant 4' tank could really get 2 15s or 1 30 and be good with the average mixed reef that would be fantastic for normal consumer.

My concern is all the aquaculture facilities and stores that have the fixtures mounted 2 or 3 feet over grow out tanks. That and that 400 PAR reading at 6 inches down with the light mounted at 9inches wouldn't cut it in our Acropora tanks.

Radions have always in recent years been to go to LED to blast Acros to express the pretty pigments that we all live, but now I'm wondering how many fixtures and how close together is it going to take to get the light penetration that the G4 had.

 

[MaD_ReefeR]

I just don’t see anyone upgrading at this price. most would be better off selling their used G5’s then just buying the new ones. At $400, it would only make sense to buy the upgrade kit if you couldn’t sell your used g5’s for >$550, which you can.

They're already selling in my local reef groups for well under 550

 

[Koh23]

Daddy,daddy, when will we be buying new radion g6?

When they release radion g26.....

With this prices, that is not far from truth....

 

[blaxsun]

Daddy,daddy, when will we be buying new radion g6?
When they release radion g26.....
With this prices, that is not far from truth....

Were you honestly expecting a price drop on the G6?

 

[Koh23]

Not at all, thats why joke is....

One day, it will be worthless, and then i will buy it

 

[blaxsun]

In case anyone's actually interested in what's involved with the upgrade. This is an unlinked video so you can't find it directly through EcoTech's YouTube channel (they emailed me the link this morning).

 

[wareagle]

Couple things...the upgrade path essentially dropped the used price on all G5s. That is what G5 owners should be more upset about. Ecotech has always had good resale value. Instead, many are crying their already fantastic light isn't the new kid on the block and therefore must be "worse" today than it was yesterday.

This is like Apple releasing the S lineup. They saw some serious complaints and took actions to fix them. No issue with that IMO. Does Apple let you self upgrade your phone to S specs for half the cost? Nope. Ecotech could have very easily said no upgrade path and kept all those parts for themselves. Chances are the G6 might be hard to come by after the first batch sells out.

Remember, it used to cost $200 to upgrade our $500 T5 fixtures to better bulbs. The LEDs and optics ARE the light. They are the cost in these fixtures. If I had a newer G5, I wouldn't pay the upgrade today. Not a chance. But in 2 years when my G5s are 4 years old? Absolutely, I will drop $400 to get all the performance and life back.

It's a light fixture, not a complex phone, and we've been changing ballast, bulbs, ignitors, capacitors, lenses, and reflectors since light fixtures were invented. I can order the drivers and boards of any Cooper/ Eaton LED street light and other expensive LED light fixture that was ever made, just like for halides. SB Reef Lights sells boards for $70.00 as just an example.

Ecotech isn't doing anyone any favors, they're a business and being competitive. It's only a matter of time before changing your light fixture parts comes to the higher end aquarium LED scene. The Ecotech knockoff lights may have even given them a wake up call, they can sell the parts, or someone else can. It also seems like we have more and more new people getting into the market with prices that actually reflect the value of LED diodes and PCBs, which is low. Money is getting tight.

 

[Kodski]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the only other company that does this, Orphek. Orphek's LED boards are $350/each while their Icon control system upgrade is $180. So for a full upgrade from a non-icon unit you're looking at $530. Seems like the Radion upgrade is reasonable in that regard. However, I feel that may shift slightly once you take into consideration each light's spread and how many units you'd need per tank. Either way, I feel that this upgrade path only has one goal in mind.

I think this is a smart marketing strategy because they now have an additional avenue to generate income. When you sell a light second hand, Ecotech makes no money on the second transaction of the light. Now, people will seek the G5's out with intent to purchase the upgrade kits. So now Ecotec has a way to generate additional income from secondary sales... in a round about way. By releasing an upgrade kit for an older model, it creates more of a demand for the old models.

Which brings me to my next point. I keep seeing people say "I can't wait to get a great deal on a G5 light!" Well, you'll probably have to keep waiting. Now that someone can upgrade the G5, it essentially sets the used market price of these lights. Something we can clearly see evident in the used market with Orpheks. The going price of the last generation of orphek is around $700-$800. Factor in the upgrade kit, and you're over the price of a new unit. I've personally been on the lookout for a good deal on a used orphek light to upgrade but the price of a used one just doesn't make any sense. Aside from the rare good deal, the usual price seems to have been steady since the release of the newer Icon light. Now there is another thing to consider here and that is market size. There are a heck of a lot more Radion's on the market than Orphek's. So it will be interesting to see how that is going to affect the used prices.

Aside from those points I have a few other thoughts.

1: While I do agree about the whole Radion is taking an Apple Iphone approach, I can at least acknowledge the differences here. Can you image if Apple released a kit that upgrades your old Iphone to the newest model? I think that would be an absolute mind blower if they did. So props to Echotech on this one. I feel like they are actually giving an option to the customer's for once.

2: I also feel like this can also be taken as an attempt at reducing waste in a throwaway society while rewarding existing customers. Think something along the lines of cordless power tools. Power tool companies reward customers for brand loyalty. IE: if you have Milwaukee tools and batteries, you're not going to go buy a tool that takes a Dewalt battery because then you'll need to spend the extra money on a new battery and charger. However, since you already own a Milwaukee battery, there is no need to purchase a tool and battery combo and you can save the money and just buy the tool. Now it may be a far stretch but I can definitely see the parallels here to upgrade your old lighting to the newest technology.

3: Another interesting thing to think about is, if you buy a G5, will Ecotech continue the trend with future models allowing you to upgrade past the G6, to say a G7 or G8 board. If that will be the case, I think it could easily put Echotech on top of the lighting market once and for all.

 

[Spare time]

Not making any judgement about Ryan just pointing out the facts. Anyone in upper management of a company always has one eye on their parent company. The board of directors of that parent company defines the direction of all of the companies that they own. Not judging; that's just how it works.

I went back and saw the live they had either the give away. They stated that if you have money to throw away, then get the upgrade kit, otherwise (they implied) just stick with the g5.

And yes I understand/agree with you. I more or less was wanting to say that betram capital may be more hand off or hands on. I'm not sure which they are, but I'd imagine brs would not have gone for a very hands on overseeing buyer given that they were already very successful and were likely not in dire need for a financial rescue. Again, that's more my opinion than anything

 

[Oldreefer44]

I went back and saw the live they had either the give away. They stated that if you have money to throw away, then get the upgrade kit, otherwise (they implied) just stick with the g5.

And yes I understand/agree with you. I more or less was wanting to say that betram capital may be more hand off or hands on. I'm not sure which they are, but I'd imagine brs would not have gone for a very hands on overseeing buyer given that they were already very successful and were likely not in dire need for a financial rescue. Again, that's more my opinion than anything

Having worked for 3 of Bertrams competitors I can confidently state that they are never "hands off"; just like we wouldnt be if we had millions invested somewhere out there. There will likely be a Bertram employee in a supervisory/ "helpful" role over the group of companies in this category. Also, just because a company has lots of sales does not make them successful. There are numerous examples of companies with billions in sales that have gone under because it did not result in enough profit to result in sufficient ROI for their investors.

 

[Rando]

I don't do that either. in my case it would easily be 1500-1600€ for my 4x G5 Pro. And honestly, if corals look bad under a G5 Blue or Pro, they won't look any better under a G6 either. I know someone who still uses G3 lights and their SPS just look heavenly.

 

[Nonya]

I think it's nice and cool that ecotech would offer an upgrade path for G5 users to have the new G6. But at $400 to upgrade the xr30 and $200 to upgrade the xr15 is simply absurd in my most humble opinion. I don't profess to know the labor/manufacturing costs of these kits but to the current G5 owners, its does not make sense to drop another $400 per light. It just doesn't. I scored a screaming hot deal and purchased 3 used G5 XR30s from another reefer at $533 per light. Adding another $400 per light nullifies the great deal I found. Though I would break even as if I purchased the lights new, to me, still doesn't make sense because I am 100% certain that I would not purchase these lights at full retail. Perspective is key and I am sure there are several of you out there who believe the upgrade path is "mind-blowing." I can respect that perspective. I actually find the price to be a tad bit abusive. Anyhow, let's discuss. Share your thoughts with me.

There are always going to be people who want the latest and greatest tech, and will gladly pay for it. The funny thing is that the latest tech may not actually be the best solution. That would explain why the Gen 6 is out only 2 years after Gen 5. If Gen 5 was so great, why come out with Gen 6 so soon?

 

[blaxsun]

There are always going to be people who want the latest and greatest tech, and will gladly pay for it. The funny thing is that the latest tech may not actually be the best solution. That would explain why the Gen 6 is out only 2 years after Gen 5. If Gen 5 was so great, why come out with Gen 6 so soon?

My guess would be the increased spread and different LED combinations. Many people are of the opinion (not necessarily me) that the G6 is really what the G5 should've been in the first place.

 

[Nonya]

or you could get 2 used g5 xr30s now that they lowered the used pricing market to around $500 per g5

Or new G5s for $800. Still overpriced.

 

[Nonya]

They're already selling in my local reef groups for well under 550

Plus shipping if you're not local.

 

[Nonya]

Many people are of the opinion (not necessarily me) that the G6 is really what the G5 should've been in the first place.

You could use that logic for every generation.

 

[blaxsun]

You could use that logic for every generation.

Yes and no. I was really hoping for the long-rumoured WiFi update for the G5/G6.

 

[Nonya]

Yes and no. I was really hoping for the long-rumoured WiFi update for the G5/G6.

Are you British?

My Gen 3s are Wi-Fi linked to my Apex. Not the easiest config to accomplish, bit it works well.

 

[blaxsun]

Are you British?

My Gen 3s are Wi-Fi linked to my Apex. Not the easiest config to accomplish, bit it works well.

Only by ancestry (Canadian). Supposedly there's a WiFi chip in there - the software just doesn't support it (yet).