Garlic... not a debate, but a hunt for info.

Lionfish Lair

Renee
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
9,030
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm looking for research articles that support the claim that garlic is harmful in supplemental doses. If you have the actual article to share THAT would be fantastic. If you just have the title, please still share, as I can probably still find the original piece.

It doesn't make a difference if it's saltwater focused or not. Studies with freshwater or brackish fish are also awesome.

PLEASE, if you have anything, please share!!

Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the immune response and disease resistance against Vibrio hmveyi infections in Asian sea bass Laces ca/carifer fingerlings through garlic (Allium sativum) added dietary doses. Garlic was supplemented into the diets at 5 g, 10 g, 15 g and 20 g/kg feed and fed to fish daily for two weeks. Control fed without garlic added diet Garlic-added feed led to increased survival for all treated groups and dose of garlic at 10 gtkg feed significantly improved survival to 83.35% compared with the controls (33.3%). In addition. there was a significant increase in growth, weight-gain and feed conversion in garlic-fed groups. Various haematological, biochemical and immunological parameters were studied. Erythrocytes, leucocytes, haematocrit, haemoglobin, phagocytic activity, respiratory burst. lysozyme. anti-protease and bactericidal activities were enhanced following feeding with garlic. Significantly higher serum protein, albumin and globulin levels were evident in treated groups. There was a reduction in serum glucose. lipids. triglycerides and cholesterol in treated groups compared to the control. The results indicate that garlic led to enhance the immunity by making L calcarifer more resistant to infection by V. harveyi.

Study goal was "to examine the immunostimulants efficiency of the garlic (Allium sativum) as a feed additive on haematological and biochemical parameters of the blood/serum of Asian sea bass, L. calcarifer in relation to immune response, and disease resistance."

Aquaculture is a steadily increasing sector. Intensive fish culture creates a highly stressful environment for fish that further restrains the immune response and outbreak of infection occurs (Kumari and Sahoo. 2005). lmmunostimulants by their broad-spectrum activity seem to be valuable for the control of fish diseases and therefore can be useful in fish culture. The results of the present study supports the growing idea that immunostimulants plants can trigger fish immune functions in any form of stress (Ardo' et al.. 2008) and they reverse the detrimental effects inte1vened by stress (Sahoo and Mukherjee, 2002, 2003). Garlic, an important medicinal herb, has a potent effect on pathogenic organisms but also has beneficial effects on the immune enhancement and cardiovascular systems

The diet was: "Garlic (A. sativum) was procured from the local market in Kuala Terengganu, Malaysia. Bulbs of garlic were oven-dried, crushed into small grains/powdery form using a household electric grinder, and mixed directly with fish feed contents (Table 1) to achieve four diets 5 g, 10 g, 15 g and 20 g of garlic per kg of feed and control was without garlic. Water was added and the ingredients of basal diet mixed mechanically with the garlic by mixer (Hobart D300T) for 20 min at a low speed to assure the homogeneity of the ingredients."

The results as far as survivability "Fish fed with garlic-added feed showed remarkable reduction in mortality after challenge with V. harveyi. There was no mortality seen up to 20 hours (h) after challenge. Highest su1vival (83.3%) achieved in the group. which was fed garlic at 1 0 g/kg feed. However. fish fed garlic at 15 g and 20 g/kg produced same survival ratio respectively. Fish fed with garlic-added feed at various ratios showed significantly (p<0.05) higher survival percentage when compared with the control (Fig. 1 ). However. there were no significance differences observed among the fish groups fed with garlic-added feed (p>0.05)."

Conclusion:
"The results of the present study clearly emphasise the therapeutic and immuno-potential of garlic both to protect the fish from diseases caused by microbes and to act as fish growth and survival promoters. In conclusion, as it was evident f om this study, the non-specific immunity of fish and prevention of bacterial infections in culture systems could be achieved through the addition of garlic in the fish diet. Further studies should be focussed on the mechanism of action of garlic needed in determination of appropriate doses, with/or without other potential plants, for commercial balanced formulated diets for the sustainable development of Asian sea bass aquaculture.
 
Last edited:

Brew12

Electrical Gru
View Badges
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
22,488
Reaction score
61,034
Location
Decatur, AL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm looking for research articles that support the claim that garlic is harmful in supplemental doses. If you have the actual article to share THAT would be fantastic. If you just have the title, please still share, as I can probably still find the original piece.

It doesn't make a difference if it's saltwater focused or not. Studies with freshwater or brackish fish are also awesome.

PLEASE, if you have anything, please share!!

Garlic is bad for fish. Unless it is good for them. I fed garlic to a fish and it died. I didn't feed garlic to a fish and it died. I fed garlic to a fish and it is still alive. I didn't feed garlic to a fish and it is still alive.

Did I cover all of the anecdotal basis? :p

EDIT: Ooops... all these would imply that garlic isn't harmful.. my bad.

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/231382/2/sar-v1n2-P222(222-228).pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093024/

http://scholarlyrepository.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1483&context=oa_theses
 

Swoody

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
798
Reaction score
1,165
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I imagine that there must be a limit to the amount before any negative effects happen.... as with most things. That being said, on my flake food and pellets... all 3 containers say "with garlic".... so it seems that if it were harmful that these companies would have ceased this practice long ago.... I have made my own extract in an effort to stimulate feeding in an Angelfish and it did nothing to get it eating....
 
OP
OP
Lionfish Lair

Lionfish Lair

Renee
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
9,030
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0

I believe those may fall to the "Pro" argument.


And there's my conundrum. Why the heck are there tons of studies that speak to the bennies and yet minimal that point to the cons of use..... and yet we have decided to run with "garlic is bad"? It doesn't make sense. There's something more to this.... or actually, maybe there's nothing more to this and we are simply running with the wrong conclusion.
 

Brew12

Electrical Gru
View Badges
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
22,488
Reaction score
61,034
Location
Decatur, AL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I believe those may fall to the "Pro" argument.



And there's my conundrum. Why the heck are there tons of studies that speak to the bennies and yet minimal that point to the cons of use..... and yet we have decided to run with "garlic is bad"? It doesn't make sense. There's something more to this.... or actually, maybe there's nothing more to this and we are simply running with the wrong conclusion.
I hope you can make more sense of the study in my second post. It does seem to show some harmful impacts when fed high (2%+) concentrations of garlic. Unfortunately, much of it is alphabet soup to me.
 
OP
OP
Lionfish Lair

Lionfish Lair

Renee
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
9,030
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I hope you can make more sense of the study in my second post. It does seem to show some harmful impacts when fed high (2%+) concentrations of garlic. Unfortunately, much of it is alphabet soup to me.

I'm going to read through it all. My back has been out since Friday, so I've been stuck on the sofa. Yes, I should be studying real school work.... but I don't wanna when I'm "sick". I deserve to read what I want to read when I'm "sick".
 
OP
OP
Lionfish Lair

Lionfish Lair

Renee
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
9,030
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0

potatocouch

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
617
Reaction score
218
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So what's the conclusion Folks?

Do we soak or not soak fish food with GARLIC?
 

Jisko

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2016
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
740
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So what's the conclusion Folks?

Do we soak or not soak fish food with GARLIC?


I would also like to know this. I have never soaked my fish food in garlic but I actually just ordered some of the seachem garlic guard to give it a shot. Kind of a coincidence eyy
 
OP
OP
Lionfish Lair

Lionfish Lair

Renee
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
9,030
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This isn't a debate about whether or not we should soak food in garlic. I'm just looking for information. It's certainly not something I'll figure out in 13 minutes. :) Wearing a research hat is what I did in the "real world", so I'm trying to come at this the same way. Years ago when we (Lionfish Lair) were looking at an enrichment product line I looked at adding garlic. I didn't think it was helpful enough to warrant adding it to our particular mix. Recently, I've been hearing a lot about "garlic is bad", which I never ran across when I myself was researching it. So, I started following the topic to see where this information was coming from purely out of interest. I found study citations that didn't support the claims, I'm afraid to say. It also doesn't make a difference to me if a hobbyist/forum are saying it, if a frozen food producer is saying it or even if the public aquariums are saying it. People's "words" don't mean much when you're hunting for facts. People's words don't morph into proven supportive facts simply because you trust the source. You know what I'm saying? It is being said that garlic is proven to be "bad".... I'm simply looking for that proof.

Does that make sense?
 

Jisko

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2016
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
740
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This isn't a debate about whether or not we should soak food in garlic. I'm just looking for information. It's certainly not something I'll figure out in 13 minutes. :) Wearing a research hat is what I did in the "real world", so I'm trying to come at this the same way. Years ago when we (Lionfish Lair) were looking at an enrichment product line I looked at adding garlic. I didn't think it was helpful enough to warrant adding it to our particular mix. Recently, I've been hearing a lot about "garlic is bad", which I never ran across when I myself was researching it. So, I started following the topic to see where this information was coming from purely out of interest. I found study citations that didn't support the claims, I'm afraid to say. It also doesn't make a difference to me if a hobbyist/forum are saying it, if a frozen food producer is saying it or even if the public aquariums are saying it. People's "words" don't mean much when you're hunting for facts. People's words don't morph into proven supportive facts simply because you trust the source. You know what I'm saying? It is being said that garlic is proven to be "bad".... I'm simply looking for that proof.

Does that make sense?

yeah, it almost seems as if its being thrown around as a "marketing" thing.... let us know what you come up with or what your opinion on this topic
 

Reef Nutrition

We Feed Your Reef
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
2,181
Location
Campbell, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
yeah, it almost seems as if its being thrown around as a "marketing" thing.... let us know what you come up with or what your opinion on this topic

We don't add garlic to our products, but we do see it in a lot of food in this hobby. It is a selling point for producers and a lot of people are inclined to buy a product if there is garlic in it. Can't wait to see some real information!

Chad
 

nervousmonkey

LPS Lover, SPS Enabler
View Badges
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
1,335
Location
Atlanta, GA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I don't think that Reef Nutrition needs garlic to stimulate a response, it does it on its own. that said, I can see some cheap ol dry flakes not being very appealing unless you are an anthia, where everything is appealing. :cool:

Chad, I'm glad you guys aren't adding things that don't need to be added. Mysis Feast speaks for itself, no need to add it. The other products all speak for themselves as well when they are put into the tank, so my opinion, whether garlic is good or bad, is to buy high-quality foods that the fish like and are used to, they'll eat then. Even finicky eaters I can get to eat Reef Nutrition or LRS, even hikari frozen. I think the key is to get good food as a base and start there. Then the question of garlic being good or bad for fish becomes irrelevant.

i've also added garlic to LRS for one of my tanks where the fish like to hide and don't notice when I feed. Strange I know, but it gets them out of the rocks to see what's going on at least. They would eat either way, just have to know it's there.
 

ReefFrenzy

Shrimp Pimp
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
1,823
Location
Advance, NC
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'll add my $.02 into the thread based solely on my opinion and experience. We deleted garlic from all our foods well over a year ago and never said a word about it. In fact we deleted garlic when we launched our new packaging since we did a mass print run of ingredient labels at the same time. We didn't do a big "garlic-free" marketing push and we just added a blurb on our website explaining why we deleted it. We initially added garlic water to our foods because as a hobbyist turned food manufacturer I too thought garlic had merit because many aquarium foods contained it.

Here is why we deleted it.....

1. We could find no conclusive proof that garlic or allicin cures Cryptocaryon irritans or does anything for parasite control in marine ornamentals, at least not in amounts reasonably added to aquarium feeds. Recommending that hobbyists soak their food in garlic to cure their fish of "ich" is only delaying real measures which could be effective such as proper QT and treatment with copper, hypo salinity, etc. It is a bad myth that keeps circulating on social media and web forums. As long as hobbyists keep reading and repeating "If your tang has spots soak your food in garlic" then I believe food makers have to keep adding it to their frozen and dry foods. They are simply responding to what the market wants.

2. We didn't find that it enhanced the food for finicky feeders. This one is pretty straightforward. If you are producing food with fresh ingredients such as scallop, clam, oyster, shrimp, etc. why would you need to mask the natural flavor and make the food smell like a pizza? We deleted the garlic and our foods' reputation with getting difficult fish to eat and acclimate continued to grow.


3. Our ingredient listings came under increased scrutiny as higher-end aquarists, public aquariums, and breeding facilities started sourcing our foods. Over the past 5 years LRS has worked alongside researchers on the cutting edge of captive breeding. Many of these researchers gave us input about optimal fatty acid ratios, supplements, vitamins, etc. Some of the rarest of the rare fish in our hobby are on this list: http://www.larrysreefservices.com/testimonials.html

During all these discussions (including the recent blue tang breeding effort) garlic was never mentioned as a desired additive. In addition I have been unable to find anyone in my network of contacts in public aquaria who uses garlic in quarantine or any other scenarios.

As I mentioned to Renee during our conversation when people who are a lot more educated than I am recommend we ditch the garlic we took their advice and responded to the request. I haven't read the links above yet but I believe there is some data published which shows marine fish have difficulty processing this terrestrial substance. Word is getting around because we have an aquaculture facility in Asia sourcing LRS and their #1 concern during the initial email was that the food be garlic-free. I'm not making it up and still have the email saved.

If you want to add garlic to your food then by all means do so. However since it is so common, cheap and easy to add we decided to leave it out of our foods to make everyone happy. If you don't want garlic you can feed right out of the package. If you DO want garlic simply add some to the cup while it is thawing.
 

Humblefish

Dr. Fish
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
34,846
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not exactly what you're looking for, but I ran across this the other day and thought it was worth mentioning:
The parasite’s pathogenicity is associated with penetration of various tissues including muscles and it has obviously an ability to evade innate responses of salmon. Treatment of spironucleosis was previously conducted by the use of nitro-imidazoles such as metronidazole, but due to the ban of this drug in husbandry, including fish farming, alternative compounds have been tested for possible antiparasitic effects. Garlic extracts were indeed found to affect the related flagellate Spironucleus vortens (Millet et al. 2011) which suggests that alternative drugs should be tested also for S. salmonicida. Possible immunoprophylactic measures including immunostimulants and/or vaccination should be investigated. This area has many research opportunities due to the fact that the nature of the host immune response towards these diplomonadid flagellates has not yet been established.

Source: http://curis.ku.dk/ws/files/130794468/Buchmann_2015_Parasitology_Protozoans.pdf
 

e572

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 21, 2017
Messages
93
Reaction score
85
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'll add my $.02 into the thread based solely on my opinion and experience. We deleted garlic from all our foods well over a year ago and never said a word about it. In fact we deleted garlic when we launched our new packaging since we did a mass print run of ingredient labels at the same time. We didn't do a big "garlic-free" marketing push and we just added a blurb on our website explaining why we deleted it. We initially added garlic water to our foods because as a hobbyist turned food manufacturer I too thought garlic had merit because many aquarium foods contained it.

Here is why we deleted it.....

1. We could find no conclusive proof that garlic or allicin cures Cryptocaryon irritans or does anything for parasite control in marine ornamentals, at least not in amounts reasonably added to aquarium feeds. Recommending that hobbyists soak their food in garlic to cure their fish of "ich" is only delaying real measures which could be effective such as proper QT and treatment with copper, hypo salinity, etc. It is a bad myth that keeps circulating on social media and web forums. As long as hobbyists keep reading and repeating "If your tang has spots soak your food in garlic" then I believe food makers have to keep adding it to their frozen and dry foods. They are simply responding to what the market wants.

2. We didn't find that it enhanced the food for finicky feeders. This one is pretty straightforward. If you are producing food with fresh ingredients such as scallop, clam, oyster, shrimp, etc. why would you need to mask the natural flavor and make the food smell like a pizza? We deleted the garlic and our foods' reputation with getting difficult fish to eat and acclimate continued to grow.


3. Our ingredient listings came under increased scrutiny as higher-end aquarists, public aquariums, and breeding facilities started sourcing our foods. Over the past 5 years LRS has worked alongside researchers on the cutting edge of captive breeding. Many of these researchers gave us input about optimal fatty acid ratios, supplements, vitamins, etc. Some of the rarest of the rare fish in our hobby are on this list: http://www.larrysreefservices.com/testimonials.html

During all these discussions (including the recent blue tang breeding effort) garlic was never mentioned as a desired additive. In addition I have been unable to find anyone in my network of contacts in public aquaria who uses garlic in quarantine or any other scenarios.

As I mentioned to Renee during our conversation when people who are a lot more educated than I am recommend we ditch the garlic we took their advice and responded to the request. I haven't read the links above yet but I believe there is some data published which shows marine fish have difficulty processing this terrestrial substance. Word is getting around because we have an aquaculture facility in Asia sourcing LRS and their #1 concern during the initial email was that the food be garlic-free. I'm not making it up and still have the email saved.

If you want to add garlic to your food then by all means do so. However since it is so common, cheap and easy to add we decided to leave it out of our foods to make everyone happy. If you don't want garlic you can feed right out of the package. If you DO want garlic simply add some to the cup while it is thawing.
I only use your reef frenzy nano. Its fantastic and I find my fish waiting for their food. I love it!!
 

Rock solid aquascape: Does the weight of the rocks in your aquascape matter?

  • The weight of the rocks is a key factor.

    Votes: 10 8.7%
  • The weight of the rocks is one of many factors.

    Votes: 42 36.5%
  • The weight of the rocks is a minor factor.

    Votes: 35 30.4%
  • The weight of the rocks is not a factor.

    Votes: 27 23.5%
  • Other.

    Votes: 1 0.9%
Back
Top