Gem Tang Diagnosis - (Beginner reefer - thanks!)

[Reef_At_Camp]

Hi all,

I got a great deal on a Gem tang, but he is not doing well after a week. His infectious signs showed up 16 hours ago. He eats really well, but he is breathing heavy. He has moved his home to an area with more flow. One eye is cloudy, and there are some tiny white spots outside of his normal gem spots. The other eye might be getting cloudy too, but it isn't as bad. I turned the water temp from 78.5 to 77 once I noticed the spots based on what my LFS said. I noticed he does some quick twitching like he itches, and he is stopping by the cleaner shrimp for treatment for the first time since he was released from my acclimation box last week. I don't have a QT for treatment yet.

I preemptively bought Ruby Reef's Rally and Kick Ich Pro, and dosed immediately. I also had some MetroPlex (from Seachem) ready in case things happened. I mixed with the binding agent for his food. I do have corals in my tank, so I would need reef safe stuff. Any identification or additional treatment methods would be supper appreciative.

These are the best shots I could get - Thanks for the help!!

 

[Reef_At_Camp]

Hi all,

I got a great deal on a Gem tang, but he is not doing well after a week. His infectious signs showed up 16 hours ago. He eats really well, but he is breathing heavy. He has moved his home to an area with more flow. One eye is cloudy, and there are some tiny white spots outside of his normal gem spots. The other eye might be getting cloudy too, but it isn't as bad. I turned the water temp from 78.5 to 77 once I noticed the spots based on what my LFS said. I noticed he does some quick twitching like he itches, and he is stopping by the cleaner shrimp for treatment for the first time since he was released from my acclimation box last week. I don't have a QT for treatment yet.

I preemptively bought Ruby Reef's Rally and Kick Ich Pro, and dosed immediately. I also had some MetroPlex (from Seachem) ready in case things happened. I mixed with the binding agent for his food. I do have corals in my tank, so I would need reef safe stuff. Any identification or additional treatment methods would be supper appreciative.

These are the best shots I could get - Thanks for the help!!

Additional photos of my yellow tangs:

Maybe a bit easier to see as they don't have natural white spots. Thanks again!!!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Sorry for your troubles. Taking photos under white light is always the best course of action, it makes it much easier to diagnose. Based on the photos of the yellow tang and mentioning the tang hanging near the high flow area, Its either severe stages of ich or velvet.

You'll need to remove the tangs from the display and place them in QT. Administer copper power at 2.5 therapeutic levels right away. It's takes several days for the medications to become effective so you'll need to start at full dose. You can always utilize ruby reef pro as a 90 minute dip prior to placing in copper to give them a good head start in
QT.

To eradicate the parasite from the display, you'll need to run fallow for 45 days running the temp at 80.6 degrees.

You'll need to act fast because velvet kills quickly... Good-luck!

 

[adittam]

You mentioned you don’t have a QT for treatment yet; you need to go get one now and get it set up ASAP if you want to save your fish. Copper will work infinitely better than anything else to kill the parasites your fish have. All of the fish in the display will need to be treated, regardless of symptoms.

 

[Reef_At_Camp]

Thanks both. Realize having a QT set up would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's possible at the moment. What can I do in the actual display tank? I have been practicing and prepared for ich management with Rally, Metroplex, and food additives, etc.

 

[adittam]

Thanks both. Realize having a QT set up would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's possible at the moment. What can I do in the actual display tank? I have been practicing and prepared for ich management with Rally, Metroplex, and food additives, etc.

Set up an absolute monster UV system. And pray.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Thanks both. Realize having a QT set up would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's possible at the moment. What can I do in the actual display tank? I have been practicing and prepared for ich management with Rally, Metroplex, and food additives, etc.

Unfortunately, with current stage of parasitic infection, ich management doesn't seem like an option. If it is indeed velvet bets are off completely. You'll need to QT with copper as the parasite has taken a foot hold of the fishes immune system. If the fish are still eating, continue to feed vitamin enriched foods and keep the water quality at optimum levels. Sorry there isn't much more that can be done.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry to see this as I love mine. The dots on the eyes and behavior you describe suggests flukes but I’m not ruling out ich. There are symptoms that distinguish both given the dark pics.
with flukes, fish will have a yawning effect, scratch itself, loss of appetite, darting action. If you see this, and fish is breathing normally, you can give it a 5 minute freshwater dip in water the same temperature as display tank. After dip return it to display. Look on bottom of bucket used and see if you can see what looks like sesame seeds or fish scales. If you do - flukes which are worms.
Ich- salt like dots, heavy breathing, no appetite, swimming towards bottom or lethargic.
Fluke treatment is praziquantel- prazi pro
Ich treatment is in a quarantine setting using coppersafe for a full 30 days at therapeutic level but first to determine which it has
UV won’t do much for pre-existing condition

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Set up an absolute monster UV system. And pray.

UV won't help at this stage in the game but could help for future parasite control. I run two oversized UV's on my system but it only kills parasites that pass through the UV won't do anything for the parasites already feeding off the fish.

 

[adittam]

UV won't help at this stage in the game but could help for future parasite control. I run two oversized UV's on my system but it only kills parasites that pass through the UV won't do anything for the parasites already feeding off the fish.

I agree. Which is why I suggested the OP go set up a QT system TODAY in my first post. And why I suggested they pray.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I agree. Which is why I suggested the OP go set up a QT system TODAY in my first post. And why I suggested they pray.

LOL. I hear you!

 

[adittam]

UV won't help at this stage in the game but could help for future parasite control. I run two oversized UV's on my system but it only kills parasites that pass through the UV won't do anything for the parasites already feeding off the fish.

They have a very small chance of saving SOME of the fish with a good diet, frequent water changes, an oversized UV system and display tank treatment with the Ruby Rally Products. Those products could definitely kill some corals though as well, despite their claims to be reef safe.

 

[Reef_At_Camp]

Was able to get some pics of the Gem and two Yellow Tangs under white light. The Gem tang has some dark spots on its tail, which you can see in the second pic here.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Looks like you might have multiple issues going here. A 5 minute FWD would provide temporary relief and confirm if the have flukes. @Jay Hemdal will chime in but it look like ich on the yellow tang but possible velvet on the photos of the gem tang, too many spots to count. Are they breathing extremely heavy?

It all really boils down to if you are willing to treat in QT or not. As mentioned Prazipro and reef rally are two reef safe medications if you absolutely can't run a QT.

Best of luck!

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks both. Realize having a QT set up would be ideal, but I'm not sure that's possible at the moment. What can I do in the actual display tank? I have been practicing and prepared for ich management with Rally, Metroplex, and food additives, etc.

Not going to read the rest of the recommendations because -
1. It's imperative that you remove the fish - and treat with copper. This sounds like velvet - as compared to something else EDIT - if flukes - a FW drip may be helpful. I doubt that this is flukes.
2. Your yellow tangs seem thin (to me) - though possibly just young - you need to make sure you're feeding enough. Plus they also need treatment immediately
3. You Need to treat all of the fish in your tank not just the tangs - and an easy QT is a 'bucket' - It does not need to be some elaborate thing.

I'm really sorry you are having these problems - and IMHO - time is of the immediate essence, This might be one of the times - where a combined copper prazipro would help

 

[Clownreef]

If you can procure a plastic tub, a heater, and an airstone you can set up a hospital tank and save those fish. Its your responsibility to do so. Sorry to hear about your troubles but honesty is the best policy.

 

[MnFish1]

If you can procure a plastic tub, a heater, and an airstone you can set up a hospital tank and save those fish. Its your responsibility to do so. Sorry to hear about your troubles but honesty is the best policy.

Liked this at first - I'm going t disagree - the changes that should have happened were when the fish were received - not today. This is the problem with not QT - 50 percent with no QT do absolutely fine. when it happens to you - it always happens at the exact wrong time. No need to blame/etc - Because you could have 1000 people saying I never QT with or without medication - and I have no problems. There are no absolutes - IMHO

 

[Clownreef]

Liked this at first - I'm going t disagree - the changes that should have happened were when the fish were received - not today. This is the problem with not QT - 50 percent with no QT do absolutely fine. when it happens to you - it always happens at the exact wrong time. No need to blame/etc - Because you could have 1000 people saying I never QT with or without medication - and I have no problems. There are no absolutes - IMHO

He's right. Dont do anything.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is clearly ich. Quarantine still warranted and treatment is a case of sooner the better.
You will need a tank large enough to house the fish you have and leave the display tank fishless for 45-60 days to allow cysts to die off without a host.
Treatment will be preferably copper Power, otherwise coppersafe at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 for a FULL 30 days at 80 degrees monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand and provide additional oxygen via airtstone. Be sure to monitor ammonia level also with a reliable test kit.

 

[MnFish1]

He's right. Dont do anything.

Actually I said:
1. It's imperative that you remove the fish - and treat with copper. This sounds like velvet - as compared to something else EDIT - if flukes - a FW drip may be helpful. I doubt that this is flukes.
2. Your yellow tangs seem thin (to me) - though possibly just young - you need to make sure you're feeding enough. Plus they also need treatment immediately
3. You Need to treat all of the fish in your tank not just the tangs - and an easy QT is a 'bucket' - It does not need to be some elaborate thing.