General Questions: Nitrate, U-Tube air bubble, and Sump

Jordan_G

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Hey everyone. I have had my tank up and running for a year and a half or so. For the most part I have been able to figure out all of the problems that come along with getting into the hobby, however there's a few things I can't ever seem to figure out. I was hoping to pick some brains and get some recommendations.

My tank: (Pics Attached)
40 gal. tank running a wet/dry sump system. Octopus 100 HOB skimmer.
1 six line, 1 clown, 1 purple stripe dotty back, 1 small yellow tang
3 shrimp (Cleaner, Fire, & Peppermint), 2 starfish, (sand sifting and brittle), and plenty of snails.

My biggest issue is nitrate. I can't get it down. My test always comes back dark red, which is around 160ppm. I do frequent water changes, minimum feeding, and I don't believe my tank is overstocked. I have added a little more sand. I have wondered if maybe the sand I have currently is bad or something because it came with the tank when I bought it from someone. The filter pad in the sump is specifically for nitrate. Bio balls are below that. Skimmer seems to work good except it gargles a lot sometimes and makes some weird noises every now and then. Nitrite, Ammonia, and Ph levels are all where they should be. Nitrate has just always been this high, and honestly everything is growing/living fine and it wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that the bubble algae is starting to take off.

The U-tube ...... this thing is killing me. An Air bubble forms towards the end of the tube, causing the water level to rise. I continuously have to check it and tap the tube up and down until the bubble moves out. But it always comes back. I need a permanent solution because the air bubble forms whenever it wants to and if I'm not home to catch it the water level can rise and overflow. (It has happened a few times)

Any suggestions on media to add in the sump that might help reduce nitrate? should I remove those sand tubes that have hair worms coming out of them? I have heard they are good for filtering the water. I have thought about adding some live plants but I don't have a light or specific area for that in my sump.

I am moving in 3 months so I'm not looking for any dramatic changes, just curious if anyone has some additional insight to these issues. let me know if the pics don't work.

-Jordan

tank 5.jpg
tank 2.jpg
tank 3.jpg
tank 4.jpg
tank 6.jpg
tank1.jpg


tank 6.jpg
 

nervousmonkey

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I'd get rid of the wet/dry sump, maybe after you move. How much debris gets caught in that chamber and in the bio balls? Look for places where detritus can build up and clean it out. There is a source of detritus breaking down in your system that's keeping the nitrate level that high.

As for the U-tube, you need to ditch that thing and drill your tank. I know you don't want to and don't think you need to, but the *only* way you will feel safe is with a drilled tank and overflow.

You asked and those are the answers; there isn't much else to do. HOB, or U-tube or whatever overflows will *always* cause a disaster. It is just a matter of time. When you move, it would be the perfect time since you are taking the tank down anyway. If you are not going to go this route, then I would get a more fool proof overflow. The one you have is just not working, and in cases like that, it's time to get rid of the problem.
 

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I ran into the bubble in a u-tube a few times when first setup my refugium. I upped the return size/flow a bit and it prevented it from coming back. It is a headache always in the back of your mind. I agree drilling is a big relief.
 

wkscott

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Yes, the wet dry needs to go, at least the bioballs.
You do not need to get rid of the overflow and drill the tank. Overflows don't always fail. There is a way to keep the siphon working using an aqualifter pump. I don't remember exactly how that works because I don't have any problems with my overflow. I'm sure someone else can chime in.

Remember that on this forum there are a few experts and their advice should be heeded. There will be others that we give highly opinionated responces that you may have to take with a grain of salt (pun intended.)
 

nervousmonkey

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agreed with wkscott. You *can* help the U-tube, but there is no way to guarantee it won't fail. My point, just to clarify, is that a HOB overflow will at some point fail, given enough time. That failure may not be in the next year, but it will fail just like everything does. I think with the problems you are describing that it is not a really viable long-term overflow. Just my opinion. A drilled tank can fail too, just less of a chance of it failing, and there are overflows now with so many fail safes built in that . People run HOB overflows for years without failing, so it's fine to run one, but I agree with wkscott that you can keep it without failing, but I think that even wkscott would agree that having a constant issue with a bubble in the tube is not normal. Either way, if it were me, when I moved I would drill the tank, so at least you have an overflow with a much better statistical chance of not having problems than an overflow with a statistically higher chance of overflowing (pun intended). I'm no expert on this stuff as wkscott said, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.
If we want an expert on this stuff, let's bring @AZDesertRat in for advice. He's the expert when it comes to this stuff. Hope he can help with the issue of your overflow.
@wkscott , great answer on the aqualifter pump, I have heard the same thing too but don't know the answer, but a search pulled this up: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/overflow-siphon-box-and-aqua-lifter-pump-question.169419/
 
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Jordan_G

Jordan_G

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I ran into the bubble in a u-tube a few times when first setup my refugium. I upped the return size/flow a bit and it prevented it from coming back. It is a headache always in the back of your mind. I agree drilling is a big relief.

Thanks for the response. Could you explain a little what you mean by "upped the return size/flow?"

-Jordan
 
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Jordan_G

Jordan_G

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Yes, the wet dry needs to go, at least the bioballs.
You do not need to get rid of the overflow and drill the tank. Overflows don't always fail. There is a way to keep the siphon working using an aqualifter pump. I don't remember exactly how that works because I don't have any problems with my overflow. I'm sure someone else can chime in.

Remember that on this forum there are a few experts and their advice should be heeded. There will be others that we give highly opinionated responces that you may have to take with a grain of salt (pun intended.)

Thanks for the advice! I would like to get rid of the wet/dry system but I am in my last semester of my masters program and I do not have the time (or money) to look in to other methods and techniques. Also, Water comes out of the slits in the long tube above the filter pad, Im not sure of a sock or any other method that would fit with that. When I move I would love to just change the whole thing, I just don't have the money yet. Any suggestions on what to replace the bioballs with?
 
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Jordan_G

Jordan_G

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I was origionally running a pump at 125gph on a eshoppes nano overflow, ended up adding a 225 or 325gph pump and throttled to match the overflow. Never bubbled or backed up again.
Interesting. So increasing the GPH on your return pump helped. Im not sure what the gph on mine is. I just looked and couldn't find it anywhere. It came with the tank when I bought it from someone. Ill look into that though, thanks!
 
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Jordan_G

Jordan_G

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agreed with wkscott. You *can* help the U-tube, but there is no way to guarantee it won't fail. My point, just to clarify, is that a HOB overflow will at some point fail, given enough time. That failure may not be in the next year, but it will fail just like everything does. I think with the problems you are describing that it is not a really viable long-term overflow. Just my opinion. A drilled tank can fail too, just less of a chance of it failing, and there are overflows now with so many fail safes built in that . People run HOB overflows for years without failing, so it's fine to run one, but I agree with wkscott that you can keep it without failing, but I think that even wkscott would agree that having a constant issue with a bubble in the tube is not normal. Either way, if it were me, when I moved I would drill the tank, so at least you have an overflow with a much better statistical chance of not having problems than an overflow with a statistically higher chance of overflowing (pun intended). I'm no expert on this stuff as wkscott said, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.
If we want an expert on this stuff, let's bring @AZDesertRat in for advice. He's the expert when it comes to this stuff. Hope he can help with the issue of your overflow.
@wkscott , great answer on the aqualifter pump, I have heard the same thing too but don't know the answer, but a search pulled this up: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/overflow-siphon-box-and-aqua-lifter-pump-question.169419/

Thanks! Im going to clean the bioballs out and try to find something to replace them with. any suggestions? When I move I do need to find another setup.
 

smh254

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Interesting. So increasing the GPH on your return pump helped. Im not sure what the gph on mine is. I just looked and couldn't find it anywhere. It came with the tank when I bought it from someone. Ill look into that though, thanks!

Yes increase the GPH or maybe just clean your return pump. This will get rid of the bubble. I've noticed with my return pump gets dirty that bubble appears. I just crank up the flow on my return Pump Until I have time to clean it.
 

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The aqualifter pumps are a simple solution to the air bubble, drill the top of the U-tube and insert suction line. That's it no more sit in tube. With the sump no need to get a new one just remove balls, purigen bags are very cheap and can help with nutrients (temporary). Tank looks nice keep it up
 

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wkscott

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Interesting. So increasing the GPH on your return pump helped. Im not sure what the gph on mine is. I just looked and couldn't find it anywhere. It came with the tank when I bought it from someone. Ill look into that though, thanks!
If you can't increase your pump's flow rate, getting a u-tube with a slightly smaller internal circumference will have the same effect. The water will then have to flow through it faster to meet the demands of your pump. The faster flow will take any air bubbles with it.
 

ReeferMaddness843

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I ran a wet dry without the bio balls for about a year and a half before finally having to change tanks and just building a diy sump. It worked very well and had I not changed tanks, I'd still be using it.
 
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Jordan_G

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Just an update. I have removed the bio balls and replaced them with a simple fiber filter that I set on top of another nitrate filter pad. I also replaced the black sponge in the middle with a new one. Its been a few weeks and not much has changed. I'll look in to a few more options.

sump fiber filter .jpg
 

vlangel

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Jordan, try using a turkey baster and blowing stuff off of all of your rocks and coral. Then when the tank clears up change the floss and then do some big WCs a few days in a row. That should lower your nitrates. When you can afford a skimmer that can help tremendously also.

Regarding the U-tube, I agree with increasing the return pump flow if possible. If not add the aqualifter. I have been using one on my tank for 15 years and I am not afraid of floods. I periodically replace the aqualifter. Here is a pic of mine.

 
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Jordan_G

Jordan_G

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Jordan, try using a turkey baster and blowing stuff off of all of your rocks and coral. Then when the tank clears up change the floss and then do some big WCs a few days in a row. That should lower your nitrates. When you can afford a skimmer that can help tremendously also.

Regarding the U-tube, I agree with increasing the return pump flow if possible. If not add the aqualifter. I have been using one on my tank for 15 years and I am not afraid of floods. I periodically replace the aqualifter. Here is a pic of mine.


Thanks!I plan on trying the smaller u-tube first, as it is a cheaper option. I will give this turkey baster a go! when you say change the "floss" did you mean flow?
 

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