"Getting Out of the Hobby"

[lynn.reef.nerd]

There are always people leaving the hobby. The recent inflation in the economy will certainly hurt a lot of people. Many downsize their hobby interests during recessions and what you are seeing is people getting out in anticipation of such event.

This hobby isn’t for everyone and the costs can well exceed any enjoyment. One of the largest disservices starting is not knowing how much planning is required upfront. The second is not understanding how important it is trying to limit nuisance algaes or pests during the initial phase or break in period. I think these two are the largest contributing factors in driving off new people.

Another issue I am noticing is the destruction of hobby oriented groups by Facebook. At the same time people listing on that site are not honest about what they are selling which can lead to much frustration. Out of four purchases on FB marketplace one was correct in description and that one was of the quality I came to love about this hobby.

Can you expand on the statement "Another issue I am noticing is the destruction of hobby oriented groups by Facebook."?
As in the hobbyist or Facebook as a company?

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

Where do you see this uptick from ? For sale threads ?


Maybe just a conspiracy theory, but these “Get out of Hobby” sales get more click - frenzy. ….?

Not R2R specifically. Local groups, facebook, etc.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

I think there are a multitude of reason that things seem to be in decline. I definitely notice it. Used to be easier to find interesting corals, now it's alot of the same stuff circling around.

I think one thing that really has never helped this hobby is the lack of clear explanation on how to do things in a straight forward manner. I was lucky to have known people already in this hobby who were old school and helped me to understand things, otherwise I would have been lost for a while. The amount of products that are thrown in your face can be extremely overwhelming.

Whatever company bought out BRS also has consolidated so many of what was previously separate companies, which consolidates alot of money in this hobby as well, which isn't good in my opinion.

Then there is the overall cost of stuff. For me to add 2 more radions on a 4ft tank is going to cost me $2000 for the lights, another like $200 for hanging kit stuff, and then you still have taxes too. Thats ALOT of money for just the lighting aspect, so it's not a very cheap hobby to get into. Powerheads, sump, pump, UV if you want it, skimmer, any reactors, filter socks, the list really goes on.

Going to Reef-A-Palooza this year was an eye opener to say something must be going on here as well, because it was incredibly lack luster, and pretty empty.

Hopefully things get better for the hobby....

RAP NY was extremely surprising for me. I did talk to some of the vendors and almost everyone stated they saw a decline in attendance. I'm hoping 2023 we will see an uptick.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

We had a long discussion in Decemeber about the most impact on this hobby - Pricing.

A decade ago, You could get a light for $200, tank for $300, Sump for under $200, Skimmer for $150 -$300 and now with a challenging economy, Everything is $800 and up taking in consideration new Technology but An apex trident is all plastic and This is $600 in material?
Price of fish have tripled and coral above that.
I cant say its no longer fun as it is, But no longer inspiring. When I Had My LFS, if you lost a damsel, you could buy another for $2.99= now $18 ??. . . . Or a Dwarf lion was $24.99 and now starting at $110.

Its just not this hobby, but these things do impact the industry as a whole and we live with it or Realize this is unaffordable.

But there are other options ot there. We don't have to go with radions/Apex/etc. Cheaper options are available that people can use to have successful tank. Why is the mentality always go big or go home? Jim (telegraham) have been doing a fantastic job pushing the smaller affordable brands.

 

[Cincyreefer513]

It doesn't help that some "older" hobbyist are recommending outdated information. I had people still recommending adding damsels to a new tank to cycle a few years ago from an LFS.

True and that could be the reasoning behind some of these purchases. Shoot, one lfs near me still uses under gravel filters and gravel in their sw tanks.
The mean ones tend to be cheaper too which might entice newbies more as well.

 

[Perry]

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[jhadaway]

Case in point on the cost. I'm have Profilux mini wifi that got me for $400 or so instead of the full blown version. I bought it when I moved up to my current waterbox 100.3. I've been looking at upgrade costs for a new tank. Auto dosing and testing for just alk, mag and cal can be $800 to $1800 depending on what options you want. I have 2 basic kamoer dosing pumps, one dosing A4R and the other dosing vinegar with cheap digital timers. I have to bump it up every few weeks as my sps grow but all in all my alk stays put and the system works. 2-1 liter soda bottles and 2-$50 pumps + $20 for timers. I can't in my mind see how I should bump that up to a grand or so. It's like buying a Rolls Royce to get you back and forth to the grocery store. Maybe if my system starts using the big three at different rates I'll have to make a move.
Anyway, just an example of how costs can get out of control if you don't take the time to research what is really a need vs what is a want vs how much money do you really want to spend. The hobby has reputation for being ridiculously expensive. Always has. Thank you Yurple Tang ($13,000).

 

[92Miata]

We had a long discussion in Decemeber about the most impact on this hobby - Pricing.

A decade ago, You could get a light for $200, tank for $300, Sump for under $200, Skimmer for $150 -$300 and now with a challenging economy, Everything is $800 and up taking in consideration new Technology but An apex trident is all plastic and This is $600 in material?

You can still get most of those things in those prices.

My Coral Box D300+ skimmer was $190, is DC, float switch in cup, and generally is fantastic - and that's significantly cheaper in straight dollars (not inflation adjusted) than the crappy ASM skimmer I bought back in 2000 or so. ($289->$490 inflation adjusted) - and that's not touching on the ecotech-equivalent botique items.

There are a TON of lights for $200 that will grow SPS - and that wasn't the case before. Lumenarcs were $120 a piece, you'd pay $60 for a cheap ballast, and MH bulbs were $60+ - - so you're at $250 (and $450 or so after inflation). I paid more than $200 for the bottom-of-the-barrel MH pendant I bought back then - and I've got a Geissman pendant that cost about $500 back in 2000ish.


There is a TON of good, cheap equipment out there - much more so than there has been at any other time in the hobby. It's just not being sold by BRS and their parent company. Vendors seizing the means of communication in the hobby have done incalculable damage. You don't need any of this.

 

[Troylee]

You can still get most of those things in those prices.

My Coral Box D300+ skimmer was $190, is DC, float switch in cup, and generally is fantastic - and that's significantly cheaper in straight dollars (not inflation adjusted) than the crappy ASM skimmer I bought back in 2000 or so. ($289->$490 inflation adjusted)

There are a TON of lights for $200 that will grow SPS - and that wasn't the case before. Lumenarcs were $120 a piece, you'd pay $60 for a cheap ballast, and MH bulbs were $60+ - - so you're at $250 (and $450 or so after inflation).


There is a TON of good, cheap equipment out there - much more so than there has been at any other time in the hobby. It's just not being sold by BRS and their parent company. Vendors seizing the means of communication in the hobby have done incalculable damage.

Curious if the rumors are true and brs are buying out wwc… be interesting where the hobby goes since they have such a huge following and will be a bigger power house..

 

[vetteguy53081]

But there are other options ot there. We don't have to go with radions/Apex/etc. Cheaper options are available that people can use to have successful tank. Why is the mentality always go big or go home? Jim (telegraham) have been doing a fantastic job pushing the smaller affordable brands.

The discussion is not about what you are using. It does not suggest to go with high end equipment. It was the mere fact that prices of equipment has skyrocketed to ridiculous high prices. Ten years ago you could go out and buy a suitable light. Now you can Finance a suitable light due to pricing - Thats crazy.
As for high end equipment, as long as people pay the prices and choose to this, to the manufacturers, it is affordable. Same with coral. Ten years ago, hammers were $5-7 per head and now you can tough them for under $15-20 per head. Because people pay it. I see so many online auctions, and people are paying $25 for frag of GSP and Xenia ???? WOW

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

The discussion is not about what you are using. It does not suggest to go with high end equipment. It was the mere fact that prices of equipment has skyrocketed to ridiculous high prices. Ten years ago you could go out and buy a suitable light. Now you can Finance a suitable light due to pricing - Thats crazy.
As for high end equipment, as long as people pay the prices and choose to this, to the manufacturers, it is affordable. Same with coral. Ten years ago, hammers were $5-7 per head and now you can tough them for under $15-20 per head. Because people pay it. I see so many online auctions, and people are paying $25 for frag of GSP and Xenia ???? WOW

Not negating what you said

Just discussing that there are options but I think a lot of folks do believe that things ARE SUPPOSE to be that way. Which is the sad part.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not negating what you said

Just discussing that there are options but I think a lot of folks do believe that things ARE SUPPOSE to be that way. Which is the sad part.

I agree. I buy many of my items used as I refuse to pay those crazy prices and support over-pricing. My online purchases for coral is less than 1% over the last year due to this pricing. I buy all private party now.

 

[maxwell]

Are the new folks the ones getting out? Majority of the folks I see are old timers.

Knowledge base there for you then ,oldies and goodies lol

 

[Mateusz]

But there are other options ot there. We don't have to go with radions/Apex/etc. Cheaper options are available that people can use to have successful tank. Why is the mentality always go big or go home? Jim (telegraham) have been doing a fantastic job pushing the smaller affordable brands.

Yes i've seen Telegram, alot of what he says I do find way more useful than say what BRS spouts about their lights, because it's from someone who isn't biased at all and can just speak their mind, which I appreciate. The problem is most people don't find out about someone like Telegram until they are already in the hobby, and once your committed you know how that can be, but thats my opinion regarding it so I could surely be wrong.

I guess I could opt not to use radions myself and find something else, but even i'm not sure what i'd get these days, and Apex and controllers I never saw a use for, I keep it very simple though.

Hopefully i'll see you at Palooza this year when i'm walking around.

 

[T-tank]

Not R2R specifically. Local groups, facebook, etc.

My point is…There are a few more “get out of hobby” sales to get people into a buying frenzy. But in reality, these sellers are not “getting out of hobby”.

 

[Nano_Man]

Her in uk everything is skyrocketing in price my LFS has just closed it’s doors can't afford electricity and he said he was 6 grand for salt my nearest fs is 2 hr travel . As far as equipment it is up to how far you want to go on your set up. If it’s up to me only the basic stuff. Salt water aquariums isn’t the cheapest hobby that why people leave it .

 

[92Miata]

The discussion is not about what you are using. It does not suggest to go with high end equipment. It was the mere fact that prices of equipment has skyrocketed to ridiculous high prices. Ten years ago you could go out and buy a suitable light. Now you can Finance a suitable light due to pricing - Thats crazy.

It's not a fact at all.

You can over-light acropora at 24" deep using fixtures that are less than $150 today.

10 years ago the Radion XR30 G3 Pro was just coming out, and was $750. That's $942 in today's dollar. An XR30 G6 Pro is $949. High end lights have kept pace with inflation while low end lights have become drastically cheaper.

And this is the same almost everywhere in the hobby. An ASM G1-X was $279 ($490 now) a decade ago - it was a 5.5" poor quality extruded pvc skimmer with a crappy chinese AC pump that pulled about 300lph of large bubbles on about 40w. Compare that to a Simplicity 120 dc - which has a much nicer cast acrylic body, is quieter, runs at about 10w, and pulls the same amount of air for $225. Or a Curve7 - which pulls almost 600lph of air, is 16w, is a much nicer and better designed cast acrylic body, and costs $299. "Skimmers are more expensive" is farcical.

And 2 feet of 6" cellcast acrylic will cost you about $150 today - so you can't even DIY them for the price they're being sold.

You can finance a cup of coffee today. Affirm does everything.

 

[nuxx]

Has there been an uptick in people leaving the hobby or is it just me?

I haven't been in for long enough to see any sort of major trend, but for those who has been in for a while,
do you notice it?
Is it common?
What is causing the issue? Inflation?

I got so into the hobby back in the day. Started with a 55 gallon tank and ending with two larger tanks running at once and also got into selling livestock.

I ended up leaving the hobby because I had such expensive / rare fish in the tank that when random smaller fish started coming up dead, I thought it was smarter of me to just jump ship and pass on the fish before something rare passed away.

I guess I got to a point where the tanks got to be such a big part of my life that anything negative was effecting me personally.

Needless to say a huge weight lifted off my back when I didn't have the tank anymore.

Looking back like 5-6 years I do miss it and would do a smaller tank again.

Back to the point, the local reef club I used to post on all the time is pretty much dead now. It was super active back in 2012-2017 or so.

 

[GK3]

Something I've noticed over the past 6-8 weeks while looking through local FB marketplace listings is a lot of tanks with notoriously mean fish in small tanks (ie damsels and dottybacks) and/or the tank is an absolute mess. Most of these people claim equipment is less than 1-1.5 years old. My speculation is either they bought the wrong fish due to lack of knowledge which turned their tank upsidedown or battling/waiting out the ugglies as well as the realization of time commitment scares most new people away. There have been several disgusting tanks that people say they don't have the time for, but have been running for several years.
Add the immense cost/increasing prices with the current economy and it weeds out more people of all skill levels.

One last thing from what I'm seeing. More people are willing to drop big $ on reefing stuff than a lot of the other expensive hobbies I'm into. Some of these hobbies were super easy to sell equipment in even a year ago, but now are very difficult or next to impossible even with prices being less than half for a practically new item. I'm not seeing reefing get hit quite as hard yet and honestly the Cincinnati/Dayton/Columbus area has a VERY strong reefing/aquarium in general base. This probably is why there are so many lfs around with new ones opening and hardly any closing.

Just moved to cinci. What’s the best LFS?