GHL Vs Apex Episode Series

[Derrick Picker]

Note, I will be doing GHL tutorials where I dig deeper. I have videos already for Apex where I go into deep programming.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I have a video on doing or/and and so forth on Apex. It is not needed for this series. Just showing a basic understanding of basic programming and then a more complex example. The tasks are NOT on GHL and therefore it makes it easier to program.

I also do not understand "Out Perform". I have my Apex doing a TON of things without any issues.

Perhaps out perform was the wrong choice as much as ease of use. I find that fusion has a work around for a lot of boolean logic but you have to play mental gymnastics and it becomes cumbersome for the average user. I've had very little experience with GHL logic, but it seems to follow in the traditional path that is familiar to a lot more people.

I personally have been naive to how GHL worked and the little that you show in your video has really expanded how I view it. Although, i'm still not quite ready to sell my apex, but you're nudging me in that direction.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Of course. Everyone has their own opinion and likes and dislikes . Hopefully, I am showing enough for people to make an educated decision. I am not trying to have one win over the other. I am just showing apples to apples as the other user said. Yes, from a programming logic and from a programming mindset, it does use the standard programming on the GHL any computer programmer would know. But MOST reefers are not programmers so you have to look at it from a noob standpoint and that is what I am trying to do and I am a computer programmer.

 

[robbyg]

I noticed it to. It seems that he chose a set of tasks that would be fairly easy for the Apex to accomplish, but failed to point out how GHL would out perform if given a more complex task. It doesn't seem like a fair comparison.


I pride myself on being pretty competent in apex logic. You're right, the OR statement can be accomplished in fusion fairly easily. Each line of code can be interpreted as OR If you require the apex to perform a task only when 2 conditions are met you would need at a minimum 2 virtual outlets and get creative with very specific conditions (at minimum Set OFF, IF THEN ON, IF THEN OFF) and have the actual outlet point to both of the virtual outlets to indicate IF ON THEN ON, IF ON THEN ON.... It really gives you a headache if you have to do more complicated tasks.

Yeah that is why I felt compelled to make the post. I was waiting for the Virtual outlets to come into play and then realized he was avoiding that completely. The video pretty much played to the Apex's strengths and avoided it's weaknesses. It then failed to show you just how versatile the GHL can be when it comes to making the more complex programs. As I have stated from day one, it's really not all that difficult in the grand scheme of things to get any of these units to do most things.
If your the kind of person who wants just basic stuff being done then IMHO you should skip the controller all together and get some intelligent power strips. If you want to do real automation than there is going to be a learning curve. At the end of the day when it's all done we rarely go back into these units other than to tweak a setting so it then becomes soley a question of which controller is more reliable.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Yes sir . But again, just doing a comparison for basic stuff and new buyers I know GHL can do a ton and I know Apex can also. Not the point really in these last 2 videos about programming. That is why they are short and sweet and just showing new users what the programming is like.

 

[robbyg]

Yes sir . But again, just doing a comparison for basic stuff and new buyers I know GHL can do a ton and I know Apex can also. Not the point really in these last 2 videos about programming. That is why they are short and sweet and just showing new users what the programming is like.

And you have done a good job at that but at the same time you need to keep in mind that people buy controllers to get complex tasks done that they cannot do with a intelligent power strip. I look forward to you showing how the modular nature of the GHL programming structure can be used to do handle increasingly complex tasks. I have done it myself so I know it works very well at that.

 

[robbyg]

Perhaps out perform was the wrong choice as much as ease of use. I find that fusion has a work around for a lot of boolean logic but you have to play mental gymnastics and it becomes cumbersome for the average user. I've had very little experience with GHL logic, but it seems to follow in the traditional path that is familiar to a lot more people.

I personally have been naive to how GHL worked and the little that you show in your video has really expanded how I view it. Although, i'm still not quite ready to sell my apex, but you're nudging me in that direction.

Everytime I see a post on using virtual outlets to make something happen I am just blown away at how complex it gets just to make one thing happen when two readings need to be checked. And as you said once you add more things it just blows up into something so complex that even experienced users need to call on help to get the code written by the expert on this forum.

 

[Derrick Picker]

After speaking to both companies they informed me that most buyers actually do not want a lot of complex things and mostly buy controllers for monitoring and alarms. I agree with you but I just do not think it is right for the series to get into deep programming structure. Next videos will get into some major differences between them with their feature set and graphs. I am also doing a video regarding power monitoring which is much different as well.

 

[haitian_reefer]

I own a Apex controller and GHL doser. Why? The DOS doser is extremely loud. Not sure how anyone could put up the noise.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I am not an Apex programming expert but I was wondering why the video centered around logic and then just used a simple "OR" statement as an example. The reason I ask is because that's really the most basic operation and one that avoided having to go into the more complex Apex virtual Outlet programming. In other words you setup the GHL using the same foundation for doing any of the more complex operations like "AND" mixed with "OR" but used it for simply "OR" statements so that you did not have to go into the more complex side of the Apex. Maybe I am missing something in the video so it would be nice if you clarified. I agree the GHL is more complex for getting simple tasks done but the beauty is that scaling it up for more complex tasks becomes very easy.

You Basically saying turn the Skimmer off if any one of those three conditions are met.
You could simply do that on any old controller going back before XYZ programming became available.

As an example of what I would think would be a more comparative example would be to see how they both handle a real world program for something like roller mats that need both AND/OR statements. If not just pick something that needs a mixture of both as this is a very common situation in real world controller use.

My controller is programmed that the roller mat can only engage the floss motor if
(The Roller Mat level is high for 5 minutes AND the returns pumps output is above 500 GPH AND the feed mode is OFF AND The Sump Level is OK) (OR if the function button for Roller Mat Feed button is pressed)

What involved with both GHL and Apex to get that running. And BTW that is something that is needed as I wasted almost a roll of floss before I realized that if any one of the conditions is not right it can cause the motor to run endlessly.

What type of roller mat are you using? I'm about to set my tank up with a Klir for better or for worse but it's what I have. Are you controlling your manually via an independent water level sensor directly to your controller. From what I understand the Klir is tied into it's own thing with provided components. It's had mixed reviews to be sure. I'm going to try it as is but looking for a plan B which I assume is using my own water sensor and controlling the motor via a controller but admittedly this is something I have yet to play with. I'm about a month out from getting this running. As indicated earlier in the thread I've yet to throw my hat in the ring of either controller. I'll be getting one or the other within the next few months. Seems like you have some experience here and would appreciate your input. Programming difficulty isn't a factor between systems for me. It's what I do for a living, just trying to understand various approaches.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Good job, enjoying the preview. At any point do you plan on getting past basics and showing which system (s) shine or fail at getting complex?

 

[Derrick Picker]

Hehe. That’s the whole point to get you anxious like TV episodes!

I got about 3-4 more that I am recording now and then I will do my review. I keep coming up with new ideas.

I do not plan to show complex things in the series. I will be doing that in my GHL tutorial videos.

 

[robbyg]

What type of roller mat are you using? I'm about to set my tank up with a Klir for better or for worse but it's what I have. Are you controlling your manually via an independent water level sensor directly to your controller. From what I understand the Klir is tied into it's own thing with provided components. It's had mixed reviews to be sure. I'm going to try it as is but looking for a plan B which I assume is using my own water sensor and controlling the motor via a controller but admittedly this is something I have yet to play with. I'm about a month out from getting this running. As indicated earlier in the thread I've yet to throw my hat in the ring of either controller. I'll be getting one or the other within the next few months. Seems like you have some experience here and would appreciate your input. Programming difficulty isn't a factor between systems for me. It's what I do for a living, just trying to understand various approaches.

Your in luck sir I am using a Klir DI-4 and after getting tired of the little controller that comes with it I changed the optical sensor to a float sensor on my controller and plugged the power adapter directly into one of my Power Bar Outlets. With this setup it works great!

Benefits:
I can set a delay time on it starting up plus make sure it does not run when my return pump is off or my flow is too low or if my sump water level is just too high. The benefit being that I can get two months out of a roll if I want to, but I typically use a hard button in the program to bypass the rest and cycle a complete clean section an hour after I stir up any detritus and that lowers the rolls life to about 6 weeks.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Your in luck sir I am using a Klir DI-4 and after getting tired of the little controller that comes with it I changed the optical sensor to a float sensor on my controller and plugged the power adapter directly into one of my Power Bar Outlets. With this setup it works great!

Benefits:
I can set a delay time on it starting up plus make sure it does not run when my return pump is off or my flow is too low or if my sump water level is just too high. The benefit being that I can get two months out of a roll if I want to, but I typically use a hard button in the program to bypass the rest and cycle a complete clean section an hour after I stir up any detritus and that lowers the rolls life to about 6 weeks.

Bwahafa I f'n knew it lol

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Bwahafa I f'n knew it lol

Sorry, I seriously placed my bet on your exact answer. But thank you for validating. I need to stop reading this forum after midnight when I received a bunch of product and those imperials are going down good! Thanks man, I see your skills across posts.

 

[vangvace]

That feels like a copy/pasta marketing material.

 

[Derrick Picker]

 

[Derrick Picker]

 

[hellsangelbx]

@Derrick Picker for president. Your doing what needed to be done by many companies that sell these products and you didn't with your own money and taking a non bias approach.

 

[hellsangelbx]

Hey @Derrick Picker out of curiosity when is the next video coming out?