GHL Vs Apex Episode Series

[Derrick Picker]

Episode 2. Premiering today.

 

[robbyg]

Good Video
You did go a little easy on the GHL for not having an Ethernet port. I still cannot understand why GHL does not make one. To me it is essential to have a wired connection on a controller but for some reason GHL does not see it that way.

 

[vangvace]

I wanted to also follow up with saying. I could discuss the cases of the base units. But, if the GHL power bar is so much better built, why does it not have a UL certification and the Apex does?

It is weird because GHL even talks about using UL on their powerbar page. Maybe it is because the form factor of the powerbar is used for all their supported counties and not all of them are UL tested? Its a weak, but plausible straw.

But after 2 videos... going to pass on the series. It feels too much like a power point for me and includes just enough information for confidence and missing enough information to be off the mark.

 

[User1]

Good Video
You did go a little easy on the GHL for not having an Ethernet port. I still cannot understand why GHL does not make one. To me it is essential to have a wired connection on a controller but for some reason GHL does not see it that way.

And this is the single reason why I didn't go with GHL. We are still a few years away from reliable interruption and latency free wireless. Then factor in all of the noise in the house and around the aquarium equipment, no think you.

 

[Derrick Picker]

It is weird because GHL even talks about using UL on their powerbar page. Maybe it is because the form factor of the powerbar is used for all their supported counties and not all of them are UL tested? Its a weak, but plausible straw.

But after 2 videos... going to pass on the series. It feels too much like a power point for me and includes just enough information for confidence and missing enough information to be off the mark.

well yes, episode 2 was a PowerPoint! There is going to be 15 or so episodes. Trying to cover everything. This series is meant for new buyers to get a feel of the 2 devices to make a decision.

I am not going to mention my opinion on anything in these videos. Just facts and what does what and let the viewer make their own opinions.

 

[robbyg]

It is weird because GHL even talks about using UL on their powerbar page. Maybe it is because the form factor of the powerbar is used for all their supported counties and not all of them are UL tested? Its a weak, but plausible straw.

But after 2 videos... going to pass on the series. It feels too much like a power point for me and includes just enough information for confidence and missing enough information to be off the mark.

It all means nothing. UL certification is not mandatory and it actually has very little meaning in this day and age. There are so many companies that put misleading or fake UL certification on their products. I have seen numerous products that have a third party UL certified power supply in the box and because of that they put a UL sticker on the product itself. The main thing is that there is no penalty for manipulating or faking UL certification except for a cease and desist order.

On the Flip side CE certification does have penalties including Jail time and Fines. If you fake the documentation and something happens like a fire etc the local manufacturer or the actual importer/seller can do jail time. You can also do jail time if a competitor reports the item and it is investigated by the European commission and found that the submitted documentation was inaccurate.

Many people think that UL certification is like FCC certification. The two things are completely different. One has teeth the other does not. That is why the Chinese have made a mockery of the UL and put a sticker on almost all their low end products.

And BTW no, those CE markings you see on cheap Chinese products are not the real CE marking.
You can differentiate them from the real one. The CE you see on those means "Chinese Export" and is of course a bit of trickery but they do not use the specified dimensions of a real CE marking.

 

[vangvace]

well yes, episode 2 was a PowerPoint! There is going to be 15 or so episodes. Trying to cover everything. This series is meant for new buyers to get a feel of the 2 devices to make a decision.

I am not going to mention my opinion on anything in these videos. Just facts and what does what and let the viewer make their own opinions.

Then I would ask that you spend extra time preparing your script. As a content creator, stating a "fact" multiple times infers your opinion regardless of your intent. Missing information also influences the audience.

Perhaps discussing the pros and cons of an integrated power supply versus separate module. Features of the powerbars, like the Apex is not and should not be treated like a surge protector. ($5-10 on Amazon for a single plug outlet to in turn plug the Apex into) The GHL reference solutions possibly being multiple uses versus single use packets... and the errors that can result. You used the expansion box as a comparison, but missed covering the expansion cards. Finally, there is the image a splitter cable versus modules.

words

Good info, but through point it at the guy that expressed grief over no UL. Please and thank you.

 

[robbyg]

And this is the single reason why I didn't go with GHL. We are still a few years away from reliable interruption and latency free wireless. Then factor in all of the noise in the house and around the aquarium equipment, no think you.

It would seem like a no Brainer that GHL would just make an Ethernet expansion card for the Profilux.
There is absolutely no downside for them in doing that. It's easy to make, they have the slots in the unit already so they would probably be selling one to each and every customer that has a Profilux 4 and therefore make some serious dollars and give the owners even more reliability.

 

[robbyg]

Perhaps discussing the pros and cons of an integrated power supply versus separate module. Features of the powerbars, like the Apex is not and should not be treated like a surge protector. ($5-10 on Amazon for a single plug outlet to in turn plug the Apex into) The GHL reference solutions possibly being multiple uses versus single use packets... and the errors that can result. You used the expansion box as a comparison, but missed covering the expansion cards. Finally, there is the image a splitter cable versus modules.

He has stated that he is no longer giving opinions, which is probably the safest thing to do.
I agree with you that an external power supply is much better than a built in one. For one thing you can keep spares and that means you don't have to send the whole Powerbar back if the supply dies.
My problem with Neptune's thinking is that the 24V supply is not only running Pumps and other equipment but it's also keeping the Head Unit and EB832's alive. Not good because a pump problem or any short circuit on that 24V line could bring down the whole system!

If I had designed it I would have just made those 24V ports relay based and used an external 24V supply that plugged into the EB832 just for those bus lines and then had the internal supply only powering the EB832 circuit board and possibly the head unit. Although the existing 12V port on the head unit is probably a safer option.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

He has stated that he is no longer giving opinions, which is probably the safest thing to do.
I agree with you that an external power supply is much better than a built in one. For one thing you can keep spares and that means you don't have to send the whole Powerbar back if the supply dies.
My problem with Neptune's thinking is that the 24V supply is not only running Pumps and other equipment but it's also keeping the Head Unit and EB832's alive. Not good because a pump problem or any short circuit on that 24V line could bring down the whole system!

If I had designed it I would have just made those 24V ports relay based and used an external 24V supply that plugged into the EB832 just for those bus lines and then had the internal supply only powering the EB832 circuit board and possibly the head unit. Although the existing 12V port on the head unit is probably a safer option.

Actually the 24v does not power the base unit at all. It only powers accessories or 1link devices /modules. The head unit runs off of 12v supplied by the aquabus cable from the eb832 and its a separate supply from the 24v power. The 12v power is a buss type setup so any powered module can provide the power for the base unit. The base unit can also be powered by a 12v power adapter completely separate from any other module power.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

A note about reusable bottles of calibration fluid. Once you open the container you may be effecting the accuracy of the solution. Then each time you insert a probe into the solutuon you are contaminating the solutuon more. That's why the single use sachets are designed for a single use. Open, use once, and toss it to reduce contamination and increase accuracy.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

It all means nothing. UL certification is not mandatory and it actually has very little meaning in this day and age. There are so many companies that put misleading or fake UL certification on their products. I have seen numerous products that have a third party UL certified power supply in the box and because of that they put a UL sticker on the product itself. The main thing is that there is no penalty for manipulating or faking UL certification except for a cease and desist order.

On the Flip side CE certification does have penalties including Jail time and Fines. If you fake the documentation and something happens like a fire etc the local manufacturer or the actual importer/seller can do jail time. You can also do jail time if a competitor reports the item and it is investigated by the European commission and found that the submitted documentation was inaccurate.

Many people think that UL certification is like FCC certification. The two things are completely different. One has teeth the other does not. That is why the Chinese have made a mockery of the UL and put a sticker on almost all their low end products.

And BTW no, those CE markings you see on cheap Chinese products are not the real CE marking.
You can differentiate them from the real one. The CE you see on those means "Chinese Export" and is of course a bit of trickery but they do not use the specified dimensions of a real CE marking.

Are you saying that a company that chooses to lie and include a UL or CE logo on there device is some how UL or CE's responsibility? UL devices have an assigned listing number and can be checked for certification right on their website.

UL is mainly a US entity and more recognized and required here in the US.

Both enforce use of their logos but both rely on the community to report failures outside of commercial environments which are required to report electrical service failure. Residential reporting is limited to other less reliable reporting methods.

Both indicate that there should have been some level of electrical testing on the device and this should be safer and a bit more reliable in its use as compared to devices that have no certifications. That doesn't seam to be meaningless to me. Only one of them maintains the testing results so that may need to be part of your consideration as well.

 

[robbyg]

Are you saying that a company that chooses to lie and include a UL or CE logo on there device is some how UL or CE's responsibility? UL devices have an assigned listing number and can be checked for certification right on their website.

UL is mainly a US entity and more recognized and required here in the US.

Both enforce use of their logos but both rely on the community to report failures outside of commercial environments which are required to report electrical service failure. Residential reporting is limited to other less reliable reporting methods.

Both indicate that there should have been some level of electrical testing on the device and this should be safer and a bit more reliable in its use as compared to devices that have no certifications. That doesn't seam to be meaningless to me. Only one of them maintains the testing results so that may need to be part of your consideration as well.

Are you kidding me! It’s hard to find a Cheap Chinese product that is not UL certified! At least certified according to the sticker on the device. Go buy some low priced stuff on Amazon and you will see for yourself. On the other hand go to Britain or some other EU country and see if you can find stores selling cheap Chinese equipment that are CE certified. I highly doubt you will find any. The difference as I said is that UL is a private company and can do very little except start a court case against a company in China to cease using their label (waste of time) or if they know about a shippment of goods they can try and have it seized using the court system. On the other hand CE is a government agency just like the FCC in America and they will lock up the manufactorer and the distributor and even the seller if they are alerted. And most certainly if the product is involved in an accident.

Another problem is that UL is just no longer trusted by anybody, they have become a joke.
They charge a large fee for testing and certifying a product but there have been questions swirling for decades as to if they actually do any real testing or is it just about getting the money. I know at places I have worked for it did not seem like anyone was stressed about us getting UL certification on a newly designed product but they did seem to be very careful about the CE documentation.
If you don't believe me here is an article from 1999 and trust me things have only gotten a lot worst since then.
Link: UL under Fire

 

[lmm1967]

And this is the single reason why I didn't go with GHL. We are still a few years away from reliable interruption and latency free wireless. Then factor in all of the noise in the house and around the aquarium equipment, no think you.

GHL can't even figure out how to prevent physically wired data bus collisions with their own sensors - ask anyone trying to run temperature on both a P4 and an expansion box at the same time.

And it's quite entertaining that they insist it's due to interference in the house - except not a single other piece of equipment (including other GHL equipment) has any trouble.

Even with the latest firmware - it's gotten better, but still not fixed.

 

[robbyg]

Actually the 24v does not power the base unit at all. It only powers accessories or 1link devices /modules. The head unit runs off of 12v supplied by the aquabus cable from the eb832 and its a separate supply from the 24v power. The 12v power is a buss type setup so any powered module can provide the power for the base unit. The base unit can also be powered by a 12v power adapter completely separate from any other module power.

OK so please point out to me the second power supply. I had not seen it before in any pictures.

I do know from previous posts that when the 24V supply goes bad the whole powerbar goes down. If there is a separate 12V supply I am not seeing it, but that would be good to know.

 

[TheHarold]

OK so please point out to me the second power supply. I had not seen it before in any pictures.

I do know from previous posts that when the 24V supply goes bad the whole powerbar goes down. If there is a separate 12V supply I am not seeing it, but that would be good to know.

There has to be a 12v source somewhere because is an EB832 can power the head unit via 12v on aquabus. However, without seeing a diagram, we cannot know if they are using a regulator to drop the 24v supply to 12v, or a separate small power supply to produce the 12v.

 

[User1]

There has to be a 12v source somewhere because is an EB832 can power the head unit via 12v on aquabus. However, without seeing a diagram, we cannot know if they are using a regulator to drop the 24v supply to 12v, or a separate small power supply to produce the 12v.

There was a thread within the last two weeks about a DIY replacement part. I'll have to see if I can find it. I thought it was one of the power supplied or regulator.

Edit: Found it - may be unrelated:

Neptune Sys EB832 Power Supply Replacement.

Dear readers, WARNING this is an account of my personal experience. Although I had a positive outcome, your experience may vary. Altering an EB832 may result in serious damage to person and/or property. Reader discretion is advised. I had a bout of bad luck the other day when I heard popping...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Aaronhome27]

I didn't watch it. No need to. However, if you say he didn't mention anything about build quality of the controller unit alone that is already a red flag. As an Neptune user since 1999 I can admit when another product has better base construction such as the GHL head unit. It does.

Doesn't mean it is a better product but putting the two side by side aesthetically - GHL 1. Apex 0.

So you're replying to a Comment on a video you did not watch.

I seem to remember when the Apex was released most of the owners were really turned off by the kiddy plastic and cheap feel of the Aper WiFi. BTW Are you seriously putting your Powerbar’s near your tank water. Anyway if this was round one and the best the Profilux could do was a tie with Apex on build quality then it does not Bode well for GHL going forward.

No I have a seperate room for my electronics but MANY reefers have thier electronics in the same cabinet. I sure hope you do realize that salt mist and vapor spray cause corrosion within a cabinet no matter where your electronics are placed. It's pretty simple understanding for anyone who has owned a saltwater tank with a sump in the cabinet. I find it funny how you really like to be heard from your keyboard on just about everything. If I recall you looked like a fool when you tried to match wits with Terrance from Neptune as well. I look forward to watching your ill informed posts and ramblings as this thread moves on. You tend to reply just so you can be in a conversation and add post counts with no actual merit or substance.

 

[User1]

So you're replying to a Comment on a video you did not watch.

Is there a problem with that? But since you believe so I was replying to a comment by another member who did. And that comment was in regards to the difference in aesthetics. It is something that is always noted when comparing these two products as it relates to beauty and ugly. Plastic vs. metal, etc. I've posted a few other times. Hopefully that is ok.

 

[User1]

No I have a seperate room for my electronics but MANY reefers have thier electronics in the same cabinet. I sure hope you do realize that salt mist and vapor spray cause corrosion within a cabinet no matter where your electronics are placed. It's pretty simple understanding for anyone who has owned a saltwater tank with a sump in the cabinet. I find it funny how you really like to be heard from your keyboard on just about everything. If I recall you looked like a fool when you tried to match wits with Terrance from Neptune as well. I look forward to watching your ill informed posts and ramblings as this thread moves on. You tend to reply just so you can be in a conversation and add post counts with no actual merit or substance.

You are a class act. Pretty much uncalled for.