Gill flukes, ich, velvet, or others?

Voltaire81

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In a 60g tank that I cycled for 10 weeks with live rock, I have 2 zebra angels, 1 emperor, 1 lyretail, and 2 clowns. All the fish went through TTM and even formalin baths when I first received them. The clowns and lyretail ive had for over 4 months and the angels for about 6 weeks.

This tank is one of my QT's before I add the fish to DT which is currently sitting fallow.

Hold and behold, the zebras, emperors, and lyretail were all scratching like crazy yesterday. I havent seen any other symptoms (not a single white spot, not swimming towards powerheads, not avoiding light, not heaving breathing, not lethargic, appetite still good - pellets, frozen, etc).

Performed freshwater dips on the lyretail and emperor yesterday in a black bucket but couldnt tell if flukes came off. After about 3 min, I noticed some white things in the bucket but im not sure if those were there beforehand.

Added prazipro again yesterday but this fish have already gone two rounds of prazi during their TTM.

At this point, Im not sure what it is. Im guessing its not ich or velvet but who knows.

Just keep observing and see if any other symptoms arise?

Help @Humblefish, @melypr1985
 

melypr1985

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observation is a good way to go here. Velvet isn't cured by any of the treatments you mentioned, but I would think you might have seen symptoms before now. How diligent were you during TTM? No crossover or lapses on letting the equipment dry all the way?

You should have seen something simliar to this after the dip if it was flukes. There are different types of flukes out there but this gives a good idea on what to look for.
1459813183075-jpg.336939
 
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Ok. I didnt see those in the black bucket which now has me worried.

Here's my QT regimen at the moment:
- Receive the fish from online or LFS or fellow reefer
- Formalin bath for 30 min
- Add to a QT and get them eating. Then start TTM
- For TTM, I have 3 sets of tanks, HOB's filters, heaters, lots of PVC's. I usually do 14-15 days with two rounds of prazipro.
- After each transfer, I rinse the tank and give the filters, heaters, pvc's a vinegar/water bath. Then completely dry (usually more than 4-5 days).
- I also do one more formalin bath before the last transfer to the hospital tank,
- Observe the fish (my current state with this group of fish).

The only issue that i can remember is when I used a pippette to check salinity on the hospital tank which has been used before in TTM.
Other than that, i let the equipment dry outside for a few days.
 

melypr1985

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So how many days has it been since the last formalin dip?
 
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Voltaire81

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For the clowns and anthias, it was mid march. For the emperor and zebra angels, it was early May.
 

4FordFamily

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Do I understand that you have an emperor angel in a 60 gallon? Sorry to hijack.

Regarding your illness it is hard to tell but it doesn't sound like flukes at this point...
 

melypr1985

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On principle I agree with 4ford because the only thing you didn't cover was velvet and that would have reared it's ugly head a while ago. But then what's making them scratch? It seems like you did everything right here so since I'm kinda stumped and lost my original train of thought that went with my earlier question (it's been a long day), I'll call for back up. @Humblefish !!
 

Humblefish

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One formalin bath will not eradicate velvet, without followup treatment in either copper or CP. But what a formalin bath would do is eliminate 80-90% of the surface parasites and knock velvet's numbers way down. Also, TTM probably helps to keep velvet in check by leaving tomonts behind in the old transfer tanks. But none of these methods would actually eliminate velvet completely, so I would get these fish in copper or CP ASAP. I'm not 100% sure this is velvet, but it is the most likely explanation all things considered. Also, fish with flukes will typically not "scratch like crazy"... it's more of a here & there sort of thing.
 
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Voltaire81

Voltaire81

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Thanks @Humblefish. *Sigh* - I didnt want to hear that. I have an empty 20g sitting around but obviously un-cycled.
Could I add bio-spira in that along with some live rock (that ill probably bleach afterwards) with Cupramine? I also have NLS Ich shield for CP treatment (but im afraid to use that as every fish that ive treated with it have perished).

On another note though, I observed the fish for about 30-45min today and i didnt see them scratch at all. The female angel was a bit more shy today though and didnt want to touch pellets but ate frozen food. Im assuming thats because of the Prazipro that I dosed last night.
 

Humblefish

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Could I add bio-spira in that along with some live rock (that ill probably bleach afterwards) with Cupramine? I also have NLS Ich shield for CP treatment (but im afraid to use that as every fish that ive treated with it have perished).

The rock will absorb copper or CP, so I wouldn't use that. Do you have a HOB which utilizes a sponge or something like Matrix for biological filtration? Better to pour the Bio-spira over that.
 

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