Glass lid with eggcrate? Tank reboot ideas?

[Jamie knight]

Hey Friends!
So my 75g has been down awhile. By down I mean still running with good water quality but it was completely taken over by GHA and now that vibrant took care of that it is basically a FOWLR tank that I want to restock with corals. My main issue is I think I want to move from a sump to canister filter. The overflow is very noisy, its not a drilled tank. The sump seems more like a nitrate/phosphate factory now filled with algae, it was self built and the bevels have failed...

Back to the topic. So I want to switch to a canister I have already and ditch the 20g long sump. I already have glass tops and I'm wondering if I use those and eggcrate for the last 4 inches where the plastic inserts go if it would allow enough air for the gas exchange thats needed.

Things I know:
I'll have to clean the glass very often.
I'll have to clean the canister very often.

Things I don't know:
Am I thinking myself into a deep hole for no good reason?

I've gone crazy over this GHA taking over the entire tank and while I never lost any fish I'm going to have to start all new with coral. The few that did survive were moved to my 40g nuvo fushion and they live happily there. I just want to get my 75g to a happy healthy tank again

Thanks for any ideas!

 

[Retro Reefer]

IMO a canister filter on a reef tank is a bad idea, a sump doesn't cause GHA. also maintenance on a canister is a pain so your probably going to be less likely to do it frequently.

 

[Peace River]

I understand your frustration with the noise. Is there a reason to not drill the tank? If you’re not comfortable drilling then I’m sure you can find someone (maybe even a glass shop) to help.

 

[Jamie knight]

I understand your frustration with the noise. Is there a reason to not drill the tank? If you’re not comfortable drilling then I’m sure you can find someone (maybe even a glass shop) to help.

Well it's already a 2 year.old established tank. So I feel like drilling it as this point would mean to empty the entire thing right?

 

[Peace River]

Well it's already a 2 year.old established tank. So I feel like drilling it as this point would mean to empty the entire thing right?

Yes, you would need to empty the tank to drill. If you prefer to go the canister direction, then it is possible, but is often a challenge to maintain the stability needed for SPS corals. Please know that I am not in the "canisters are evil" crowd and I do have a canister on a fish only tank. IMO, if you can stay consistent with the maintenance and are willing to stay with less demanding corals then it is worth moving forward with the canister filter. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[dankaqua]

By down I mean still running with good water quality but it was completely taken over by GHA and now that vibrant took care of that it is basically a FOWLR tank that I want to restock with corals.

Got a picture of your tank/sump (in its current state)?

A quiet overflow is fairly easy to engineer if your tank is drilled.

But tackling the cause of the algae problem should be the first goal. Do you test for nitrates and phosphates?

Have you done an ICP test?

 

[Sailfin11]

Can you post some pictures of your overflow setup and drain lines? I have had problems with overflows in the past and have done A LOT of research that maybe I could put to use here. I totally understand your frustration and would be happy to help.

If you still want to ditch the sump, I'd check out the FigiCube DIY All in One Kit. Basically, all of your filtration will be neatly concealed into an acrylic box. The best thing is that it still allows for surface skimming. For $169 its a good deal, and would help you keep the benefits of a sump with zero noise. Definitely consider it -- here's a pic of a 75 with the kit installed from their website. Best of luck with the tank!

 

[Jamie knight]

Can you post some pictures of your overflow setup and drain lines? I have had problems with overflows in the past and have done A LOT of research that maybe I could put to use here. I totally understand your frustration and would be happy to help.

If you still want to ditch the sump, I'd check out the FigiCube DIY All in One Kit. Basically, all of your filtration will be neatly concealed into an acrylic box. The best thing is that it still allows for surface skimming. For $169 its a good deal, and would help you keep the benefits of a sump with zero noise. Definitely consider it -- here's a pic of a 75 with the kit installed from their website. Best of luck with the tank!

 

[Jamie knight]

Got a picture of your tank/sump (in its current state)?

A quiet overflow is fairly easy to engineer if your tank is drilled.

But tackling the cause of the algae problem should be the first goal. Do you test for nitrates and phosphates?

Have you done an ICP test?

I do indeed. The issue is that due to the algae the results come back at 0. I believe this is due to the algae soaking up all of the nutrients.

 

[Jamie knight]

Can you post some pictures of your overflow setup and drain lines? I have had problems with overflows in the past and have done A LOT of research that maybe I could put to use here. I totally understand your frustration and would be happy to help.

If you still want to ditch the sump, I'd check out the FigiCube DIY All in One Kit. Basically, all of your filtration will be neatly concealed into an acrylic box. The best thing is that it still allows for surface skimming. For $169 its a good deal, and would help you keep the benefits of a sump with zero noise. Definitely consider it -- here's a pic of a 75 with the kit installed from their website. Best of luck with the tank!

What pump would I use with the kit?

 

[Jamie knight]

Yes, you would need to empty the tank to drill. If you prefer to go the canister direction, then it is possible, but is often a challenge to maintain the stability needed for SPS corals. Please know that I am not in the "canisters are evil" crowd and I do have a canister on a fish only tank. IMO, if you can stay consistent with the maintenance and are willing to stay with less demanding corals then it is worth moving forward with the canister filter. Good luck with whatever you decide!

I dont need the most amazing corals in the world. I'd be happy with some zoas, maybe a torch, leather corals?

 

[dankaqua]

Thanks for the pics. A few questions:

Are you running any kind of mechanical filtration in the sump? (floss, filter sock)

Mechanical filtration is a pain, but for the first couple years it's very helpful at exporting detritus/fish food&poo/nutrients.

Is there a substrate in your display tank? (it's a bit hard to see).

What kind of RO/DI system are you using?

I seems you are running a light in your sump. Do you have a refugium or algae scrubber or ?

Did you try manually removing (vacuuming) out some of the hair algae?

Personally, I've never used Vibrant. But I'd be cautious that it "solved" the problem. I would not put corals until the tank "runs clean for a few months" (no hair algae) with your current load of fish/feeding.

The sump seems more like a nitrate/phosphate factory now filled with algae, it was self built and the bevels have failed...

"bevels have failed"???

I do indeed. The issue is that due to the algae the results come back at 0. I believe this is due to the algae soaking up all of the nutrients.

Could be. Usually, hair algae is usually (hopefully!) a short term problem and very common.

I see it as a "teaching aid". Let it tell you how your tank is doing and if your maintenance is on point.

In any case, the problem seems to be two fold: noisy overflow and nutrient mitigation.

Probably better to solve the overflow first...

 

[Peace River]

I dont need the most amazing corals in the world. I'd be happy with some zoas, maybe a torch, leather corals?

That sounds like a reasonable place to start.

 

[Jamie knight]

Thanks for the pics. A few questions:

Are you running any kind of mechanical filtration in the sump? (floss, filter sock)

Mechanical filtration is a pain, but for the first couple years it's very helpful at exporting detritus/fish food&poo/nutrients.

Is there a substrate in your display tank? (it's a bit hard to see).

What kind of RO/DI system are you using?

I seems you are running a light in your sump. Do you have a refugium or algae scrubber or ?

Did you try manually removing (vacuuming) out some of the hair algae?

Personally, I've never used Vibrant. But I'd be cautious that it "solved" the problem. I would not put corals until the tank "runs clean for a few months" (no hair algae) with your current load of fish/feeding.



"bevels have failed"???


Could be. Usually, hair algae is usually (hopefully!) a short term problem and very common.

I see it as a "teaching aid". Let it tell you how your tank is doing and if your maintenance is on point.

In any case, the problem seems to be two fold: noisy overflow and nutrient mitigation.

Probably better to solve the overflow first...

Thank you so much for your post, these are a lot of good questions and I'm going to try to hit them all.

Substrate: Crushed Coral, about 4 inches.

RODI: RO Buddie with 2 DIs hooked on so its currently a 5 stage, with 2 stages being the DI. Should I add more stages? My TDS meter reads at 0 currently, but our water here is plum awful and I don't know if the RO makes it perfect.

Sump questions: Filtration has floss and carbon(if I'm running carbon, don't keep it in lately as I was thinking it might absorb the vibrant. There is a light, chaeto is in the sump. I also just got a hang on back refugium that now has chaeto as well as I was thinking of ditching the sump.

I've been manually removing GHA by the hand fulls.

Bevels: I put in glass panels with aquarium safe silicone and the silicone basically just gave up and so the walls came down. So the sump is now basically just a 20g long with a overflox box with PVC pipe for the intake and a pump for the return. Even with the chaeto in there it has filled with algae but I'm thinking now that I have the hang on back refugium taking the light out all together would keep any algae from growing in the sump and maybe that light was adding to my problem..

Also, you are correct, solved may not be the best term as there is still some GHA but it's down to probably 10% of what it was. I could legitimately see almost no rock because there was so much algae..

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Jamie knight]

Thanks for the pics. A few questions:

Are you running any kind of mechanical filtration in the sump? (floss, filter sock)

Mechanical filtration is a pain, but for the first couple years it's very helpful at exporting detritus/fish food&poo/nutrients.

Is there a substrate in your display tank? (it's a bit hard to see).

What kind of RO/DI system are you using?

I seems you are running a light in your sump. Do you have a refugium or algae scrubber or ?

Did you try manually removing (vacuuming) out some of the hair algae?

Personally, I've never used Vibrant. But I'd be cautious that it "solved" the problem. I would not put corals until the tank "runs clean for a few months" (no hair algae) with your current load of fish/feeding.



"bevels have failed"???


Could be. Usually, hair algae is usually (hopefully!) a short term problem and very common.

I see it as a "teaching aid". Let it tell you how your tank is doing and if your maintenance is on point.

In any case, the problem seems to be two fold: noisy overflow and nutrient mitigation.

Probably better to solve the overflow first...

I took some more pictures, and also I forgot the mention I also have a gfo going.

This was the tank at it's worst.

This is now:

Most of the green you see is the GHA having kind of melted from the vibrant, so it's still a work in progress.

And this is Mufasa, he just wanted to say hi and thanks for the help!

 

[dankaqua]

Mufasa!

Substrate: Crushed Coral, about 4 inches.

I have always had "bare-bottom" tanks so "deep sand bed" is not something I can help you with. I hope someone can give you some good advice about it. Back in the day, there was the "Jaubert" system named after Professor Jean Jaubert. Not sure if he coined the word "plenum" but it was all the rage back then:

Feature Article: Jaubert's Method, The 'Monaco System,' Defined And Refined

In this article I will focus on the simple method developed by Professor Jean Jaubert for establishing a reef aquarium.

www.advancedaquarist.com

WWC seems to think that "bare bottom" is the way to go. I'm sure there are many people on both sides of the argument.

Check out this thread:

Going Naked - Bare Bottom Tanks: Interview with World Wide Coral's Co-Founder, Lou Schiavo

RODI: RO Buddie with 2 DIs hooked on so its currently a 5 stage, with 2 stages being the DI. Should I add more stages? My TDS meter reads at 0 currently, but our water here is plum awful and I don't know if the RO makes it perfect.

Sounds good to me. If you want a definitive answer, pickup an ATI ICP test kit from amazon:

ICP test kit

To my knowledge, that the only ICP test kit that tests your tank water AND YOUR RODI water. It's slow to get the data (one-two weeks) but the diagnosis (from Germany) is very good.

It's a "one time only" test, but imho it's worth the $45.

Sump questions: Filtration has floss and carbon(if I'm running carbon, don't keep it in lately as I was thinking it might absorb the vibrant. There is a light, chaeto is in the sump. I also just got a hang on back refugium that now has chaeto as well as I was thinking of ditching the sump.

Are you still dosing the Vibrant?

I've been manually removing GHA by the hand fulls.

There's a pump that you can use to pull algae out and then run it into a filter sock (e.g. 5 micron) in your sump. Check for videos about it.

Personally, I have used a Vortex XL (hard to find them now). Manual removal of hair algae is no fun, but having a pump to help you is really nice. Removal during water changes is certainly doable.

Bevels: I put in glass panels with aquarium safe silicone and the silicone basically just gave up and so the walls came down.

You may be dismayed at this idea, but how about picking up a new sump (same size tank) and redoing it?

Silicone should be almost impossible to remove from glass. That's what holds virtually all glass aquariums together. It's an exceptionally strong bond. Note: silicone doesn't stick to acrylic well.

If you decide to reuse parts of your old sump... cleaning the old glass (in preparation to silicone it) is an important step. I start out with a new razor blade (remove old silicon etc) and then hit it with silicon carbide sandpaper (the black sandpaper). You can usually get a packet with a few different grades at a dollar store.

Need to clean and dry the glass very thoroughly. I use isopropyl alcohol as a last step before putting on the silicone (it evaporates in seconds).

Give the silicone a good 48 hours to dry while it's being held immobile.

So the sump is now basically just a 20g long with a overflox box with PVC pipe for the intake and a pump for the return. Even with the chaeto in there it has filled with algae but I'm thinking now that I have the hang on back refugium taking the light out all together would keep any algae from growing in the sump and maybe that light was adding to my problem..

Growing macro algae (or any algae) in the sump is helping to remove it from your system (i.e. the nutrients are then stored in the algae). Then you have to remove the algae. Using Chaeto in the sump is probably the best way to do it because it's easy to harvest. I'd continue with that.

Also, you are correct, solved may not be the best term as there is still some GHA but it's down to probably 10% of what it was. I could legitimately see almost no rock because there was so much algae..

What other fish do you have and how much/what do you feed them?

I know you are facing some daunting maintenance/fixup issues, but it will make you a better reefer in the end. A reef tank is a great teacher.

 

[Jamie knight]

Mufasa!



I have always had "bare-bottom" tanks so "deep sand bed" is not something I can help you with. I hope someone can give you some good advice about it. Back in the day, there was the "Jaubert" system named after Professor Jean Jaubert. Not sure if he coined the word "plenum" but it was all the rage back then:

Feature Article: Jaubert's Method, The 'Monaco System,' Defined And Refined

In this article I will focus on the simple method developed by Professor Jean Jaubert for establishing a reef aquarium.

www.advancedaquarist.com

WWC seems to think that "bare bottom" is the way to go. I'm sure there are many people on both sides of the argument.

Check out this thread:

Going Naked - Bare Bottom Tanks: Interview with World Wide Coral's Co-Founder, Lou Schiavo



Sounds good to me. If you want a definitive answer, pickup an ATI ICP test kit from amazon:

ICP test kit

To my knowledge, that the only ICP test kit that tests your tank water AND YOUR RODI water. It's slow to get the data (one-two weeks) but the diagnosis (from Germany) is very good.

It's a "one time only" test, but imho it's worth the $45.


Are you still dosing the Vibrant?



There's a pump that you can use to pull algae out and then run it into a filter sock (e.g. 5 micron) in your sump. Check for videos about it.

Personally, I have used a Vortex XL (hard to find them now). Manual removal of hair algae is no fun, but having a pump to help you is really nice. Removal during water changes is certainly doable.

You may be dismayed at this idea, but how about picking up a new sump (same size tank) and redoing it?

Silicone should be almost impossible to remove from glass. That's what holds virtually all glass aquariums together. It's an exceptionally strong bond. Note: silicone doesn't stick to acrylic well.

If you decide to reuse parts of your old sump... cleaning the old glass (in preparation to silicone it) is an important step. I start out with a new razor blade (remove old silicon etc) and then hit it with silicon carbide sandpaper (the black sandpaper). You can usually get a packet with a few different grades at a dollar store.

Need to clean and dry the glass very thoroughly. I use isopropyl alcohol as a last step before putting on the silicone (it evaporates in seconds).

Give the silicone a good 48 hours to dry while it's being held immobile.



Growing macro algae (or any algae) in the sump is helping to remove it from your system (i.e. the nutrients are then stored in the algae). Then you have to remove the algae. Using Chaeto in the sump is probably the best way to do it because it's easy to harvest. I'd continue with that.



What other fish do you have and how much/what do you feed them?

I know you are facing some daunting maintenance/fixup issues, but it will make you a better reefer in the end. A reef tank is a great teacher.

Still dosing Vibrant but not nearly as often.

I can't get the sump out... It is too big to come out of the cabinet doors. I suppose I could completely empty and dry it out and scrape it in the cabinet, it wouldn't be pleasant but it is doable. It only fits in and out through the top of the cabinet which has the main display on top and moving that is I think out of my realm of possibility.

Fish: Dwarf lion, lunar wrasse, 3 clowns, a silk damsel, and a yellow tang

 

[dankaqua]

Still dosing Vibrant but not nearly as often.

I can't get the sump out... It is too big to come out of the cabinet doors. I suppose I could completely empty and dry it out and scrape it in the cabinet, it wouldn't be pleasant but it is doable. It only fits in and out through the top of the cabinet which has the main display on top and moving that is I think out of my realm of possibility.

Fish: Dwarf lion, lunar wrasse, 3 clowns, a silk damsel, and a yellow tang

Don't know what to say Jamie... I really hope your tank turns the corner, stabilizes and is an enjoyable experience.

I'm kind of concerned about your setup and ongoing use of a supplement (vibrant) to control algae....

You could take the "wait and see" approach. If you are still having the same issues 6 months from now, it might be time for version 2.0....

Version 2.0 for me would look like:

• Drill the tank and put on a good overflow system
• fix the sump, add filter sock(s), redo the fuge
• install a protein skimmer
• install an ATO (automatic top off) system to replace evaporation
• decide whether to top off with Kalkwasser or dose 2/3 part (Calcium/carbonates + trace elements)
• test and log PO4, NO3, Ca, Mg, dKH, pH, salinity, Ammonia (ICP test for trace elements like strontium, iodine, etc)
• small sump canister for carbon and one for gfo
• get a controller (e.g. ReefKeeper, but an Apex would be a lot better)
• try a bare bottom tank

I know that sounds like a pretty huge list, and success with corals can be done WITHOUT the above...

...but those are the main tools which help.

It's possible to build a house with an axe, but it's a lot easier with power tools. And the axe-built house is going to be drafty...

 

[Jamie knight]

Don't know what to say Jamie... I really hope your tank turns the corner, stabilizes and is an enjoyable experience.

I'm kind of concerned about your setup and ongoing use of a supplement (vibrant) to control algae....

You could take the "wait and see" approach. If you are still having the same issues 6 months from now, it might be time for version 2.0....

Version 2.0 for me would look like:

• Drill the tank and put on a good overflow system
• fix the sump, add filter sock(s), redo the fuge
• install a protein skimmer
• install an ATO (automatic top off) system to replace evaporation
• decide whether to top off with Kalkwasser or dose 2/3 part (Calcium/carbonates + trace elements)
• test and log PO4, NO3, Ca, Mg, dKH, pH, salinity, Ammonia (ICP test for trace elements like strontium, iodine, etc)
• small sump canister for carbon and one for gfo
• get a controller (e.g. ReefKeeper, but an Apex would be a lot better)
• try a bare bottom tank

I know that sounds like a pretty huge list, and success with corals can be done WITHOUT the above...

...but those are the main tools which help.

It's possible to build a house with an axe, but it's a lot easier with power tools. And the axe-built house is going to be drafty...

I think these are all good ideas. I'm going to try to avoid tank 2.0.

Vibrant is t forever, BRS does s great video on them dosing over 2 months, I'm at about 5 weeks.

I think I'm going to try to scrape out and clean the sump and start it over. I can run the tank on the canister for a day .

To address the super noisy overflow I'm wondering because f the could just use the canister and have it pump out into the sump. I feel like that would technically work..

 

[LostInTheDark]

To address the super noisy overflow I'm wondering because f the could just use the canister and have it pump out into the sump. I feel like that would technically work..

The noise is usually caused by an air lock fighting the water flow. One of the easiest ways to fix it is to insert a small (1/4,3/8) hose into the drain area. Usually 3 or 4 inches down. This allows the air to bypass the pull and stops the noise. It cost nothing to try and almost always works.