Good Idea to Add Some Nutrients Before The Starfish to the Tank with all Live Rock and Live Sand?

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ok, so I've spent the day cleaning all the old rocks and sand along with draining the old water out of the tank I'm fully restarting and I used peroxide to wipe down the inside. I'm buying all the supplies today (really all I need to get is the live sand and more live rock) currently I have some live rock but it's in a separate tank ATM. Would it be wise to add a C,N,P source like a heavy dose of phyto for the first few days before adding any livestock along with small doses of Phyto after that to maintain nutrient levels for the bacteria and microfauna on the live rock and sand? I feel like it would be a good idea because the water is going to be oligotrophic. Or would it be an even better idea to add the Phyto to only the water and live sand before adding the live rock? I'll still buy everything today but keep it in a small holding tank for a few days while nutrient levels rise.
 

OfficeReefer

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
627
Reaction score
496
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hmm @livinlifeinBKK might be better to measure where your parameters are just after the change and 1 week into it. I would also state that if you have live rock, you probably want to set that aside and add back after 48hrs or so then start your first test. Then test again 1 week from this and so on. I would dose phyto in very small amounts if your live rock is good and you are adding copepods.
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hmm @livinlifeinBKK might be better to measure where your parameters are just after the change and 1 week into it. I would also state that if you have live rock, you probably want to set that aside and add back after 48hrs or so then start your first test. Then test again 1 week from this and so on. I would dose phyto in very small amounts if your live rock is good and you are adding copepods.
It's wild live rock straight from the ocean which I'm sure will come with plenty of pods...it just dawned on me that a carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate source are needed by the bacteria and other microfauna... probably a good idea to keep the live rock in the holding tank at least for a few days while nutrients build up. I do have nutrients in the holding tank which I built up through Phyto dosing along with using some of the water from my other tank after a water change. I'm not going to add ammonia though
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Honestly, just dosing nitrate and phosphate along with a vitamin supplement would probably work well but I don't see the need to invest in more supplements when it can be done naturally
 

OfficeReefer

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
627
Reaction score
496
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It's wild live rock straight from the ocean which I'm sure will come with plenty of pods...it just dawned on me that a carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate source are needed by the bacteria and other microfauna... probably a good idea to keep the live rock in the holding tank at least for a few days while nutrients build up. I do have nutrients in the holding tank which I built up through Phyto dosing along with using some of the water from my other tank after a water change. I'm not going to add ammonia though
That's right. You are spot on with your thoughts. I would also not add any ammonia.
 

OfficeReefer

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
627
Reaction score
496
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Honestly, just dosing nitrate and phosphate along with a vitamin supplement would probably work well but I don't see the need to invest in more supplements when it can be done naturally
If you want a sure approach, get some Fritz TurboStart 900 and you'll be good to go in 24 hours. Reef stores use it all the time after cleaning out a tank.
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If you want a sure approach, get some Fritz TurboStart 900 and you'll be good to go in 24 hours. Reef stores use it all the time after cleaning out a tank.
I'll see if I can find some but I'm in Bangkok so some supplements can be difficult to source...I'll probably just go the most natural route and although I can test, I think an even better sign might just be to look for light algal growth on the glass since the algae would be feeding off the nutrients
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm just really glad I remembered this just now! I think what I'll do is add the live sand and water today and although I'll buy the live rock, I'll put it in the same 5 gallon holding tank I've been using for other live rock which I know has at least some nutrients in the water. I'll add small doses of live phyto for maybe 3 days once a day and ghost feed lightly. I'll also do one or two small water changes on my 10 gallon and add the water from that tank to the new one because I know my nitrates and phosphates are a little high in there. Lastly, and likely not particularly necessary, I'll add half a dose or so of Brightwell's Vitamarin M just for trace nutrients since I already have it on hand. I think that should be sufficient...it's not as if there's going to be any significant bioload. I'm actually much more concerned about the non nytrifying bacteria and microfauna surviving healthy.
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
5,924
Reaction score
7,117
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm just really glad I remembered this just now! I think what I'll do is add the live sand and water today and although I'll buy the live rock, I'll put it in the same 5 gallon holding tank I've been using for other live rock which I know has at least some nutrients in the water. I'll add small doses of live phyto for maybe 3 days once a day and ghost feed lightly. I'll also do one or two small water changes on my 10 gallon and add the water from that tank to the new one because I know my nitrates and phosphates are a little high in there. Lastly, and likely not particularly necessary, I'll add half a dose or so of Brightwell's Vitamarin M just for trace nutrients since I already have it on hand. I think that should be sufficient...it's not as if there's going to be any significant bioload. I'm actually much more concerned about the non nytrifying bacteria and microfauna surviving healthy.
Honestly, this question might be more up someone like Dan_P or Timfish's alley than mine, but I would imagine that's probably a good plan. I wouldn't aim to make the nutrients too high, but it seems like a good idea to me to ensure that there is something there for the microbiome to survive off of. (I don't know if making the nutrients too high would be a problem, but it could potentially shift the microbiome of the rocks to be less oligotrophic-typical, so I'd probably play it safe and not go too high just in case.)
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Honestly, this question might be more up someone like Dan_P or Timfish's alley than mine, but I would imagine that's probably a good plan. I wouldn't aim to make the nutrients too high, but it seems like a good idea to me to ensure that there is something there for the microbiome to survive off of. (I don't know if making the nutrients too high would be a problem, but it could potentially shift the microbiome of the rocks to be less oligotrophic-typical, so I'd probably play it safe and not go too high just in case.)
Ok, I'll ask @Dan_P and @Timfish for their opinions too. I think just a thin film of algae covering the glass overnight is probably a good level but I'll ask to be sure...
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Honestly, this question might be more up someone like Dan_P or Timfish's alley than mine, but I would imagine that's probably a good plan. I wouldn't aim to make the nutrients too high, but it seems like a good idea to me to ensure that there is something there for the microbiome to survive off of. (I don't know if making the nutrients too high would be a problem, but it could potentially shift the microbiome of the rocks to be less oligotrophic-typical, so I'd probably play it safe and not go too high just in case.)
Also, did I share with you that I got the tank completely empty and clean last night. I even wiped down the inside with some peroxide. I just need to clean the skimmer and it should be a perfect setup. My other star seems to be thriving and is very active. I asked my professor when we might ha e an opportunity for the field work, he said he's really busy for the next 2 weeks but he will try to help and set up a meeting for me with the head microbiologists at the university to help. I may end up having to collect the samples alone which I wouldn't mind at all. It all just depends upon their available time.
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@ISpeakForTheSeas here is part of our conversation yesterday...just wanted to show you there is real conversation between he and I concerning this topic specifically and he says he does see value in the idea and that it would be worthwhile!...I can share the screenshots later....like I said, I'm trying to just share all the details with key people...
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hey, @Dan_P and @Timfish not trying to rush you guys but when you have a chance I'd really appreciate your opinions. I'm planning to set up the tank today.
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,571
Reaction score
7,024
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ok, I'll ask @Dan_P and @Timfish for their opinions too. I think just a thin film of algae covering the glass overnight is probably a good level but I'll ask to be sure...
Oh boy, this is close call. If you are growing an algal biofilm, I would feed it NO3 and PO4 and possibly hedge my bet and dose trace elements. When you want the stuff to grow it won’t :) That said, it is going to be an aquarium biofilm and might not resemble a reef biofilm.
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Oh boy, this is close call. If you are growing an algal biofilm, I would feed it NO3 and PO4 and possibly hedge my bet and dose trace elements. When you want the stuff to grow it won’t :) That said, it is going to be an aquarium biofilm and might not resemble a reef biofilm.
I understand what you mean but that's not my concern at this moment...these rocks already have established biofilms because they came from the ocean (hopefully close to where Fromia live). I'm putting the tank together today. If I put wild collected live rock in oligotrophic water a LOT of the microfauna and many types of bacteria will starve to death due to lack of food. I'm trying to avoid that...
 
OP
OP
livinlifeinBKK

livinlifeinBKK

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Bangkok
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Dan_P this was my idea:
I'm just really glad I remembered this just now! I think what I'll do is add the live sand and water today and although I'll buy the live rock, I'll put it in the same 5 gallon holding tank I've been using for other live rock which I know has at least some nutrients in the water. I'll add small doses of live phyto for maybe 3 days once a day and ghost feed lightly. I'll also do one or two small water changes on my 10 gallon and add the water from that tank to the new one because I know my nitrates and phosphates are a little high in there. Lastly, and likely not particularly necessary, I'll add half a dose or so of Brightwell's Vitamarin M just for trace nutrients since I already have it on hand. I think that should be sufficient...it's not as if there's going to be any significant bioload. I'm actually much more concerned about the non nytrifying bacteria and microfauna surviving healthy.
 

Tamberav

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
9,550
Reaction score
14,629
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Never had any issues or need to dose live ocean rock even in new water. it came full of crabs, pods, worms, dusters, corals, plants... they all produce waste. Even the tunicates seemed fine. It very quickly produced some nutrients/debris.

I don't think it would do any harm unless you dose too much though.
 
Back
Top