Good Idea to Add Some Nutrients Before The Starfish to the Tank with all Live Rock and Live Sand?

[Dan_P]

I understand what you mean but that's not my concern at this moment...these rocks already have established biofilms because they came from the ocean (hopefully close to where Fromia live). I'm putting the tank together today. If I put wild collected live rock in oligotrophic water a LOT of the microfauna and many types of bacteria will starve to death due to lack of food. I'm trying to avoid that...

OK, got it.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

OK, got it.

So do you have any suggestions for me to add nutrients in any particular way?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I just got back with the 3 stars and a bunch of wild live rock

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P this was my idea:

Sounds good. Here is a thought about closed systems: the sand and rocks can rapidly consume nutrients and food. In the wild they developed being constantly bathed in a low concentration of food. They had an infinite food source. In an aquarium, the food source might be higher, but the total amount could be quickly consumed if the live sand and rock have a heavy population of organisms. You will have to somehow manage this. If you were just using nitrate and phosphate to grow algae, you could measure the water to ensure nutrients did not become depleted. I don’t know how you will do that with bacteria. I am not saying your plan won’t work, just be aware that nutrient depletion for the new system is something to think about.

 

[Dan_P]

So do you have any suggestions for me to add nutrients in any particular way?

Ghost feeding might be the way but I have no idea about determining the optimum amount per day. This the other experiment within an experiment I referred to earlier, growing and maintaining a biofilm. Also, nitrates and phosphates can become depleted quickly in a closed system. Watch those daily until you get a sense of how quickly they are being used up by the sand and rock.

Have you asked @taricha about growing and maintaining biofilms? He has done a ton of work on culturing bacteria and could help here.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Sounds good. Here is a thought about closed systems: the sand and rocks can rapidly consume nutrients and food. In the wild they developed being constantly bathed in a low concentration of food. They had an infinite food source. In an aquarium, the food source might be higher, but the total amount could be quickly consumed if the live sand and rock have a heavy population of organisms. You will have to somehow manage this. If you were just using nitrate and phosphate to grow algae, you could measure the water to ensure nutrients did not become depleted. I don’t know how you will do that with bacteria. I am not saying your plan won’t work, just be aware that nutrient depletion for the new system is something to think about.

That certainly is a relevant concern and one I've taken into consideration. First off, I'm not sure I've updated you on the experimental design which I can do in your inbox...this isn't a long term study like my previous one was planned to be. The objectives have changed a little and my goals aren't the same in this new study. This is more of a first step study to better prepare myself for my more difficult and experimental ideas. It's not a lengthy study and of I feel replenishment of the food source is mandatory at any point, I will purchase more of this wild ocean rock since I paid only $3 a piece for it. However, once you understand the objectives and purpose of this new study I think you'll agree that what I'm aiming to do is much more manageable than you're probably imagining based on my previous designs. However, I have discussed with members here as well as one of my university professors about it and all agree it is worthwhile and can contribute to our knowledge in valuable ways.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Ghost feeding might be the way but I have no idea about determining the optimum amount per day. This the other experiment within an experiment I referred to earlier, growing and maintaining a biofilm. Also, nitrates and phosphates can become depleted quickly in a closed system. Watch those daily until you get a sense of how quickly they are being used up by the sand and rock.

Have you asked @taricha about growing and maintaining biofilms? He has done a ton of work on culturing bacteria and could help here.

I certainly will. Did you read my latest post?

 

[Timfish]

To be honest I don't think we know enough about biofilms to say difinitvely which way described here is best. Definitely test and document as much as is possible. Personally I would add everything at once. My reasoning being as soon as anything is added the biology is going to take off and if stuff is added sequentially some of the biology will shift and some won't so I would expect close testing would show differnces between what's being established. But this is a learning process and documenting is more important at this point than how it's set up.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

To be honest I don't think we know enough about biofilms to say difinitvely which way described here is best. Definitely test and document as much as is possible. Personally I would add everything at once. My reasoning being as soon as anything is added the biology is going to take off and if stuff is added sequentially some of the biology will shift and some won't so I would expect close testing would show differnces between what's being established. But this is a learning process and documenting is more important at this point than how it's set up.

You don't think a lot of bacteria and microfauna would die off due to the lack of nutrients? The fresh water is completely oligotrophic.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Ok...before adding the rock tomorrow, right now I'm ghost feeding a little reef roids and just a little pellet food. Gonna add half a dose of Brightwell's Vitamarin M to add some extra vitamins even though it's probably unnecessary I don't think it will hurt anything. Not even sure if the reef roids and pellet food will have enough time to be converted into nitrates and phosphates by tomorrow afternoon. That's why I think I'll add most of the nutrient rich water the rock has been sitting in because I know that has plenty of nitrates and phosphates for a fact. I might do a small water change on my other tank and add the water from that tank to add those nutrients as well. How's that sound for a start?