Got my first icp and it’s not so good .

Discussion in 'Triton Applied Reef Bioscience' started by Michael w, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Hi guys I got my first icp back this week , and the results were shocking . My refrigium
    Had not been taking off , and I had 4 shrimp die which I put down to a ammonia spike . However got my triton results and had high levels of copper nickel and vanadium .

    I have checked all the equipment and can’t see any rusting components and all is brand new .

    My question is I used about 40kg of Carib sea Hawaiian black live sand , could this be what is leaching metals into my tank . I have run a magnet over it and some particles are magnetic . Which I thought as magnetic must be metal ? Could this be leaching those particular metals ?

    I have performed a 30% water change added detox then will be performing more water changes . Any ideas ?

    https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/75370/
     
    rkpetersen and KrisReef like this.

  2. Chris Villalobos

    Chris Villalobos Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    Boise, ID, USA
    Link looks bad to me. Yeah and sand shouldn't be magnetic! Good catch!
     
    Michael w and KrisReef like this.
  3. FoxyFace

    FoxyFace Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    76
    My husband's tank has the same substrate and I've noticed this as well. We just got back an ICP test and it has odd results. I'd be interested in seeing what yours looks like to compare.
     
    Michael w and KrisReef like this.
  4. KrisReef

    KrisReef Valuable Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    4,633
    Location:
    The West
    Polyfilter ASAP!
     
    S-t-r-e-t-c-h and Michael w like this.
  5. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Hey guys dunno why link not working but attached is the results in pdf

    Many thanks
     

    Attached Files:

    • doc.pdf
      File size:
      119.2 KB
      Views:
      62
    KrisReef likes this.
  6. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    I chucked in cuprasorb soon as I got the results and then added triton detox soon as it was ordered in tank atm following the instructions . Should I get poly filter also ?
     
    NotASpammerDude and KrisReef like this.
  7. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Added the pdf would be interested to know if was similar to yours
     
    KrisReef likes this.
  8. Chris Villalobos

    Chris Villalobos Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    Boise, ID, USA
    Are you going to remove all the black sand? I looked at what oceanic basalt is made of and I don't think we want it in our tanks. It can have high concentrations of iron and aluminum let alone other, more exotic elements. The white sand we put in our tanks is crushed coral.
     
    Michael w and KrisReef like this.
  9. madweazl

    madweazl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    3,159
    Location:
    Virginia
    A local forum member out my way had the same issue with the CaribSea Tahitian black; they even performed nuetron activation analysis on it with crazy high vanadium (estimated at 300ppm). If you want black sand, I've been using the Nature's Ocean Bio-active black since about 2011 in a couple of tanks and I've had no issues with it (four ICPs done in the past years).
     
    rkpetersen, Michael w and KrisReef like this.
  10. KrisReef

    KrisReef Valuable Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    4,633
    Location:
    The West
    I’ve read good things about the two products that you are using for removing copper. I am not sure what other metals they remove? Polyfilter is more broad spectrum so that’s my first reaction when you don’t know for certain the source of your alarming ICP results.
    Yes on Polyfilter is my short answer, but hopefully some of our chemist experts will check in to speak to your specific results.

    I was able to open your second pdf and noticed aluminum and Phosphate was also setting off alarms. I agree with previous posters that the black sand may be a problem source.
     
    Michael w likes this.
  11. ihavecrabs

    ihavecrabs Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    2,229
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Chicago, IL - West Suburbs
    Poly filter would be great, just make fire to force a lot of water though it for it to be effective.

    Sand is likely the cause as this is not the only thread I have read regarding this issue.

    I would also be wary and check any and all magnets in the tank.
     
    Michael w and KrisReef like this.
  12. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Yes I will remove all the black sand , as this seems to be the cause . And don’t want to be forever using stuff to make sure it doesn’t keep leach into my water column . I will prob go with crushed coral in future
     
    Chris Villalobos likes this.
  13. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ohh really that’s not good to hear I will start to symphon it out . Still better to do it slowly yeah ? Ahh I wish I had known that , probably forgo black sand altogether now though . Thanks interesting to know other people have had this problem
     
  14. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Yeah I’m not sure either but I’ll be running carbon and doing several 30% water changes to make sure it’s all out of my system and siphoning the sand out also . Thank you
     
    rkpetersen likes this.
  15. Michael w

    Michael w Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Thanks for your advice what polyfilter would you recommend or is any just as good ? Shame I only just heard now about this sand I lost my favourite tiger shrimp :( but we are forever learning in this hobby .
     
  16. madweazl

    madweazl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    3,159
    Location:
    Virginia
    If you can perform a larger water change, it will be more beneficial (provided you can maintain parameters your tank is at). You want to dilute the heavy metals as quickly as possible.
     
    dwest, Michael w and saltyfilmfolks like this.
  17. rkpetersen

    rkpetersen walked the sand with the crustaceans R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019 Controller Advisor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    4,296
    Location:
    Seattle
    That is exactly what has happened. Do a search here for 'black sand vanadium' and you will see multiple recent threads on the issue.

    My own experience has been that initially high levels of nickel and vanadium gradually came down with normal tank husbandry including 10% weekly water changes.
    Other people have decided to replace their black sand.

    Whether or not the sand is actually the cause of problems people see is hard to prove, of course.

    Black sand is magnetic because it's a basalt rock with high levels of iron and nickel, both of which are ferromagnetic.
     
    S-t-r-e-t-c-h and Michael w like this.
  18. Breadman03

    Breadman03 Valuable Member Catskill Reef Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,485
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Location:
    Luzerne County, PA
    Michael w likes this.
  19. Scdell

    Scdell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2017
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    524
    Yep! Have black sand also. Same high metals. I'm doing 10 % water changes per week, running heavy carbon, wet skimming. And siphoning deep into the sand bed every water change. I'll be changing out my black sand with Carib sea special grade. I'll siphon out about 20 lbs and replace it a little at a time. Each week.
     
    Michael w and rkpetersen like this.
  20. rkpetersen

    rkpetersen walked the sand with the crustaceans R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019 Controller Advisor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    4,296
    Location:
    Seattle
    From my experience with black sand, Poly Filter, Triton Detox, and Chemi Pure (which is mostly GAC) seemed to have little ability to remove nickel and vanadium quickly. My levels stayed elevated even after trying these products. There was however a surprising drop in those levels on my most recent ICPOES test, which seems to have coincided with when my chaeto fuge really started to take off. It's been suggested that the macroalgae takes up metals from the water and I think this is likely.
     
    Michael w and Scdell like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page