Greenish-yellow frill, purplish/orange speckled disc. Did I get as lucky as I think?

[Tired]

Sorry about the bad pics, it's not fully open and it's in a bad spot for clear photos anyway.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/617887981620953109/900518396179918889/image0.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/617887981620953109/900518396939079730/image1.png
So, I spotted a colony of this at my LFS. 15ish polyps on a skeleton coral branch. They wanted $100something for it, and it was large enough that I'd have nowhere to put it, so I asked if they had a smaller piece. They did. This guy, $20.
Now, I'm happy with this whatever it is, it's really pretty. But this looks a lot like some zoas I've seen online for quite a high price. Is this one of those? Is it possible to tell from this photo, or do I need it to open up more and get a really nice shot? If it helps, there were adults in the colony that were about half an inch across. This one's a baby at about a quarter inch.

Also, if anyone knows what this is, how do I treat it? I'd love a colony of these. Also love to be able to sell some, if they fetch anywhere near the price I'm thinking. And I'm thinking I've seen 3-polyp frags for about as much as my LFS wanted for the entire colony.

 

[blaxsun]

What do you think it is?

 

[Tired]

I mean, they look a lot like Predators or one of the Kraks, or at least the adults did. Sure looked like something the online retail types would price real high.

 

[Hooz]

Predator. I just got a frag yesterday. Usually $70+ per polyp.

Low to medium light, moderate flow. Then just let it grow.

 

[Hooz]

Double post

 

[Tired]

Hell yeah. I knew I got a good deal on this guy. Funny thing is, I'd just been mutually complaining with an employee about zoas getting fancy names slapped on and going for ridiculous prices, and then I wandered over to their "pricier corals" display, saw the colony of these, and went "oh, like these ones". Was delighted to hear the price. They had a nice chunk for like $60 that I was tempted to get just for insurance that it wouldn't all melt, but it was on an awkwardly-shaped frag rock situation.

Yeah, yours look about like the ones in the store, though I think those had a slightly wider green rim and a little less orange by volume? I should probably let this guy mature (or at least open up in better lighting) before trying to get a 100% ID on it.

Thanks for the care tip. Are Predators and things that look like Predators especially fussy? I don't think I've ever seen any pictures of even a mini-colony of this, people always seem to just have one or two polyps. I'm hoping that's just because everybody always frags them up, and not because they like to melt for no evident reason.

 

[ying yang]

If can sell for $ 70 per polyp go buy that 15 polyp colony and you got just over 1g lol

Not that I would pay that much but if someone does then that's cool.
I rather have a similar looking coral for $ 5 a polyp and from what I read the more expensive corals usually slower growers and if get pests or fish that eat zoas for instance then alot say its the more expensive ones that are dinner ^_^

 

[Hooz]

Predator

GMK

I think the reason you only ever see singles is because people frag them constantly to cash in. I'm getting them to grow in my display tank, so mine just grow.

My GMK colony is up to 9 polyps now... and growing.

 

[Hooz]

People talk about zoas "coloring up" and "morphing". Light plays a big part in how that happens. Light spectrum and PAR can brighten colors and even change patterns.

Here is a pic of my GMK single the day I got it, compared to the same polyp after 30 days in my tank.

I can't wait to see what my Predators do!

 

[James_O]

Glad we got it figured out! You definitely got a steal on them, congrats.

 

[Tired]

If can sell for $ 70 per polyp go buy that 15 polyp colony and you got just over 1g lol

Not that I would pay that much but if someone does then that's cool.
I rather have a similar looking coral for $ 5 a polyp and from what I read the more expensive corals usually slower growers and if get pests or fish that eat zoas for instance then alot say its the more expensive ones that are dinner ^_^

Honestly, it is kinda tempting to do something like that, now that you mention it. But I would have to find 15 buyers. Also, I think the LFS will stop selling me things if I start flipping their corals. And, there are plenty of places selling nice-sized colonies that could be chopped up and sold for a solid profit, but you don't really see that happening. Which makes me think there's a reason why. Maybe just that people tend to consider "chop shops" unethical. Though I bet there's a price at which people would ignore their morals and buy anyway.

Seriously though, $70 is about the cheapest they've been. Check out threads with any age on 'em, and you'll see people buying Predators at $200 a polyp. I won't buy zoas for over $50 a frag (and I mean /frag/, i.e. multiple polyps, not a single polyp), but some people sure will. Grand Master Krakatoas were selling for, what, $800 a pop? Ridiculous prices.

If you've got a source for Predator-like zoas for $5 apiece, you better link that. Heck, any half-decent-looking zoa for $5 a polyp is a pretty good deal.

Sometimes corals are expensive because they grow slowly, sometimes they're prone to melting. But sometimes it's just because there aren't very many available yet. Also, prettier things are naturally going to cost more. There's a reason those brown palys don't sell for much. I think Predators are a combination of cool-looking and not-many-available-yet? At the very least, if I google "Predator zoanthids melting", I don't get any results of Predators themselves. Whereas if you google, say, "Maul zoanthids melting", you get loads. I won't buy Mauls- cool as heck, but they seem to like to just vanish.

As for things eating them, that's a confirmation bias. We're wired to be more inclined to remember more negative experiences; it's more important to remember "this snake bit someone and they died" than "this snake bit someone and it hurt but they were fine". So people are much more likely to take note when their expensive zoas are eaten, versus when their eh-didn't-much-like-those zoas are eaten. Angelfish do not in fact have a value-sensing device in their little brains with which they can specifically target expensive zoas. Though it doesn't help that people usually only have one polyp of an expensive zoa, which is much more vulnerable to nipping. And maybe angels and the like are slightly more likely to target a single zoa sticking up? That could probably be tested somehow.

 

[Hooz]

Buying, growing, fragging and selling is part of the hobby. 90% or the coral I have in my tanks came from other hobbyists, the other 10% from resellers. If stores stopped selling coral to people who later fragged it and sold it, they wouldn't have a customer base.

Zoa prices seem to be set based on appearance, availability, growth speed and tendency to melt. It's all textbook supply and demand. When the new hotness is imported the price starts out high. Once they start getting "out there" the price comes down a bit. How fast they get "out there" (where growth speed and melting come in to play) drives the price.

GMK started out at $800+ these days you can get one for $150 or so. Predators started out $150-ish and now can be had for under $100. Try pricing Dayglo Volcanos or Stratospheres... Their prices reflect the fact that they are cool as heck to look at, but they also melt at the drop of a hat.

I have one particular strain of zoa (Ktar Black Hornets) that only a handful of people in the US seem to have. It's a slower grower, but the price isn't astronomical because only certain collectors are interested in it, so demand isn't as high. That's just the nature of zoa pricing.

In the end, you just have to pick ones that YOU like to look at, and buy them at a price that you're comfortable paying.

 

[Tired]

Yeah, but there's a difference between buying something, growing it out, and selling frags later, and buying a large colony specifically to chop it up and sell it for an immediate profit.

Though... these are some really nice-looking zoas. It is awfully tempting to buy that colony, use it as a mother colony, and frag the ones that grow from it.

Predators don't seem to be inclined to melt, either. And I absolutely wouldn't mind having a larger colony of these guys right away, instead of waiting and babying the one tiny polyp.

Aw, hell. I'll call the shop today and ask if it's still there. It probably is. If it is, I'm gonna buy it, set it up all nice, and see if I can make a little profit.

This is something I'm really happy to have found, even if they've sold both colonies (the big one and a smallish one) that I saw yesterday. This is just such a pretty zoa, and normally at prices I won't touch.

 

[MaxTremors]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but there are probably 20 named morphs very similar to this. Based on the picture, I wouldn’t say that they’re for sure any of those morphs, it’s just not a clear enough photo to say definitively. You can call them whatever you want, but I wouldn’t go trying to sell them as a specific morph without solid/definitive verification (as definitive as these things can be, which is not very).

 

[Tired]

Yeah, absolutely needs a better ID. I'll be getting that. Will put pictures of the actual adults, fully opened, in proper light, on this thread.

But as far as I can tell, there isn't anything that looks like these that wouldn't sell for at least $50 a frag. Even if it's not one of the exact named ones, I bet I could call it "Predator knockoff" or something and still sell it for a decent price. It's a genuinely very pretty zoa, name or no.

 

[Hooz]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but there are probably 20 named morphs very similar to this. Based on the picture, I wouldn’t say that they’re for sure any of those morphs, it’s just not a clear enough photo to say definitively. You can call them whatever you want, but I wouldn’t go trying to sell them as a specific morph without solid/definitive verification (as definitive as these things can be, which is not very).

I'm not sure there is a "lineage" for "Predator". They're still relatively new, and technically probably just a wild GMK morph anyway. They've been called "Endgame", "Funk Master Krak" and "Predator" by different resellers, but they all probably came from the same importer/wholesaler.

Coupled with how they're likely to change after being in the OP's tank for a bit, I'd say (even based on that picture posted of it mostly open) that it is a "Predator".

 

[Tired]

I misheard earlier; the big frag is $250. But they have a 7-polyp frag for $70. I've reserved that and will pick it up later today. Probably have a pic up in 4-5 hours?

 

[zoaprince]

That does look like a Predator. It has the distinct circle around its mouth. It got the name from New York Reef Aquarium who was the first to name them.

They are recent-ish imports straight from the ocean so it was cheap for wholesale buyers. Pretty much every wholesale buyer across the United States bought these. Places charging $200 a polyp initially were just greedy. $20 a polyp sounds way more fair. Your LFS seems honest.

 

[Tired]

Yeah, this particular LFS tries not to feed into the hype. /Too/ much. Normally they'd sell a one-polyp frag of something for like $5, maybe $10 for something fancy. I think it's entirely reasonable for a new, rare, cool-looking coral to sell for /more/, just... not to the degree these zoa strains get hyped up. Particularly the melty ones, my gosh, $200 for a tiny frag that's likely as not to just disappear.

I'm picking up a larger frag, partly so I don't have to worry so much about this one baby polyp getting unhappy about something and melting all at once, so I'll have a better picture up in a few hours. And then we'll see if it morphs at all for me.

 

[Hooz]

my gosh, $200 for a tiny frag that's likely as not to just disappear.

Tell me about it! I bought a Dayglo Volcano. It made it 5 weeks in my tank, and I thought it was getting happy, then melted in 48 hours.

I'm still not over that one.