Has anyone ever had their SPS die due to Dosing Spectracide for Nitrates?

[aarbutina]

I think the thread title says it all or mostly all of it... I am wondering if anyone has ever had their SPS start to Stn or Rtn after starting to dose spectracide.

Long story short... 10 days ago I started dozing 1ppm per day of NO3 using Spectracide in my top off water, and I have seen the exact opposite of what every post I read says... how dosing Spectracide does miracles (that might be a slight exaggeration). My SPS, or what is left of them, have taken a beating.

10 days ago when I started dozing I was a 0 nitrate (Red Sea pro). After two days of dozing 1ppm a day I was up to some where between 0 and 0.25 ppm and 0.018 Po4. After 4 days I was at 0.75 and after 10 days (stopped dosing 2 days ago) I am at around 1.5 ppm Nitrate and 0.034ppm phospate. The issue is however I have lost a number of frags already and the frags that I have left aren’t looking to good. I have had several frags RTN out of no where (there one day gone the next). Through out this time my alk has been running between 7.0 and 7.5 (was raising all from 7.0 to 7.5 over several days).

I am at a lose for what is going on. First signs of trouble where when my piece of red planet lost all it flesh over night. The night befor it’s polys we’re out and happy next morning bone white. Next my montis started showing they were unhappy. One of my green montis (not sure exactly what it is) started going Grey. At first it was speckeled and the lost most of its color on top and the polys retracted. Same with other montis... they kinda looked dusty if that makes sense. Today I lost a tennius piece... last night polys tonight bare.

I just did a battery of testing and everything looks normal.
Alk 7.5
Ca 380 (lower but not crazy)
Nitrate 1.5
Phosphate 0.034
Potassium 390
Ammonia 0

I tested ammonia since I pulled Half of my biopellets out of my reactor 4 days ago and I wanted to make sure that didnt cause a mini cycle. I know dosing nitrates and running a pellet reactor are counter intuitive, and that’s the reason I was going to slowly take it off line. I think it was what stripped my tank of the nitrates to begin with.

So that is where I am. Scratching my head watching my tank spiral down the proverbial drain.

So I guess there are two question...

the first is I am wondering if any one else has seen anything similar to this.... I wonder if I got a bad batch of Spectracide with something contaminating it.

Second, if this was you what would you do next. I think a couple water changes are in order or sure. But beyond that I am at a loss.

Added info: tank has been running for about a year and I might with radions.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

[aarbutina]

Also currently not running carbon, but could very easily but some online.

Also lps and Zoas don’t appears to be affected.

 

[Rockhead]

I know a hand full of people personally that have lost there tank to this , the problem Is that the potassium (K) spikes and shocks everything, so as of now it’s going to be recovery mode, sorry that’s just what has been presented to me.

 

[Rockhead]

What your wanting to dose is sodium nitrate , what you are dosing now is potassium nitrate

 

[aarbutina]

I know a hand full of people personally that have lost there tank to this , the problem Is that the potassium (K) spikes and shocks everything, so as of now it’s going to be recovery mode, sorry that’s just what has been presented to me.

I suppose that is possible but like I said my potassium tested at 380 which is right around where it should be. I guess if my potassium was very very low to start with that could be the case but least for a quick second for easy of math say the ration of K to NO3 is 1 to 1 (which is roughly correct the K makes up about 40% of the total mass). Over ten days I would have only raise the potassium level by 10 ppm I would have a hard time believing that that would fry a tank.

 

[aarbutina]

What your wanting to dose is sodium nitrate , what you are dosing now is potassium nitrate

Potassium Nitrate and Sodium nitrate are both viable choices and have been discussed at length over in the chemistry forum.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Why did you start dosing nitrates in the first place? Was it because you saw some problem with your SPS health? If so, the problem might have had nothing to do with nitrates, or lack thereof, and your SPS may have just started looking worse because of whatever made them look bad in the first place.

One thing to keep in mind about Spectracide is that they make no guarantees about the purity of the product. It may have impurities that are harmful to the health of corals. A food-grade sodium or potassium nitrate is a better choice because food-grade products must meet certain purity standards. Very generally speaking, most things safe for humans are safe for our aquariums.

I don't think that the problem was the potassium though. For every 3 ppm of nitrates you dose, you only dose 2 ppm potassium. Maybe if you had been dosing this for months, K would become a problem. But I don't think in your situation it is an issue.

 

[aarbutina]

I started dosing nitrate in an attempt to increase coral growth and coloration. The fact that my tank consistently read 0.00 had me concerned.

I do fully agree that Spectracide make no claims about its purity and that is partly why I am asking if anyone else. Has had similar experiences. The are many people on here who seem to be using this for dosing.

 

[OnPointCorals]

Very very unlikely the Potassium nitrate did that.

You say you were adding it with top off water. Not sure how you would accurately calculate that. Why not just dose it once a day. Would be the easiest that way.

Potassium raising dangerously is of very little risk unless you’re dosing a ton of KNO3 daily.

Look elsewhere for your issue is my opinion.

 

[aarbutina]

Very very unlikely the Potassium nitrate did that.

One would think, unless it wasn’t pure potassium nitrate.

 

[Randyp79]

I had a very similar experience with the spectracide stump remover. My tank has undetectable nitrate and phosphate. I started dosing 1ppm KNO3 per day to raise nitrates. After about 5 days I was registering 1-2ppm NO3 on Red Sea test and stuff was looking great. A few days later I noticed that many of my acros had grey tips and many started to lose tissue on the tips and around the base. Similar to you, I had some montis and some acros turn a dark grey color. I stopped dosing and now things have started to recover. Some of my acros have lost color and turned to recovery green color. To be honest, I am glad I read your post because it makes me realize I'm not the only one that's had this problem.

 

[aarbutina]

I had a very similar experience with the spectracide stump remover. My tank has undetectable nitrate and phosphate. I started dosing 1ppm KNO3 per day to raise nitrates. After about 5 days I was registering 1-2ppm NO3 on Red Sea test and stuff was looking great. A few days later I noticed that many of my acros had grey tips and many started to lose tissue on the tips and around the base. Similar to you, I had some montis and some acros turn a dark grey color. I stopped dosing and now things have started to recover. Some of my acros have lost color and turned to recovery green color. To be honest, I am glad I read your post because it makes me realize I'm not the only one that's had this problem.

Randy, I knew I couldn’t be the only one. I am glad you chimed in. Like addictreef said it’s unlikely that the issue is the KNO3 itself since the potassium and nitrogen at dersirable but I am wondering if there is a purity thing.

Another thought I had was if this had something to do with hovering between that 1 and 2 ppm level (I was thinking this before you even posted your experience). It seems many people dose right to their desire level, normally somewhere above 2 ppm. It seems very unlikely to me but is there some danger zone between 0 and say 2 ppm where SPS just aren’t that happy or maybe there is more fluctuation that is occurring (just a thought, again not likely).

Another thing I have been thinking is could the be an available nutrients and alkalinity thing. In the past folks who have run near zero systems have kept alkalinity at NSW levels of 7-8. Deviating to far on either side of that range seemed to have resulted in “burned tips” or Stn. Now people are pushing to higher alk level 9-11 ish, but to do this the nutrient level in the tank must be higher, or you guessed it burned tip/Stn. What if we just weren’t increasing our alk to a high enough level to match our nutrient level (again just a thought). What was you alk level during you experience?

 

[Randyp79]

Randy, I knew I couldn’t be the only one. I am glad you chimed in. Like addictreef said it’s unlikely that the issue is the KNO3 itself since the potassium and nitrogen at dersirable but I am wondering if there is a purity thing.

Another thought I had was if this had something to do with hovering between that 1 and 2 ppm level (I was thinking this before you even posted your experience). It seems many people dose right to their desire level, normally somewhere above 2 ppm. It seems very unlikely to me but is there some danger zone between 0 and say 2 ppm where SPS just aren’t that happy or maybe there is more fluctuation that is occurring (just a thought, again not likely).

Another thing I have been thinking is could the be an available nutrients and alkalinity thing. In the past folks who have run near zero systems have kept alkalinity at NSW levels of 7-8. Deviating to far on either side of that range seemed to have resulted in “burned tips” or Stn. Now people are pushing to higher alk level 9-11 ish, but to do this the nutrient level in the tank must be higher, or you guessed it burned tip/Stn. What if we just weren’t increasing our alk to a high enough level to match our nutrient level (again just a thought). What was you alk level during you experience?

Low nutrient, so my alk was 7.3 - 7.7

 

[OnPointCorals]

If it will make you feel better you should order a bottle of pure potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate.

I switched from spectricide to sodium nitrate (loud wolf brand) after year of using the stump remover with no issues.

If it will settle your mind. Order from here:

http://www.loudwolf.com/store/

 

[aarbutina]

If it will make you feel better you should order a bottle of pure potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate.

I switched from spectricide to sodium nitrate (loud wolf brand) after year of using the stump remover with no issues.

If it will settle your mind. Order from here:

http://www.loudwolf.com/store/

Thanks for the recommendation. Honestly my hope is once I get the pellet reactor off line, I can keep my nitrates elevated without slightly elevated without dosing nitrates but that is TBD.

 

[aarbutina]

Low nutrient, so my alk was 7.3 - 7.7

So right in line with where I am... would need a much larger data set to draw any real conclusion, but it makes me wonder if the corals aren’t happy at a nitrate level of 1 to 2 and a alk of ~7.5. In the same way as if you were at zero alk the corals would not most likely be happy at 6.5

 

[ikolbaba06]

I had a similar result as you. I started dosing spectracide and soon thereafter my acros had slow tissue recession at the bases and I lost a few. I switched to potassium nitrate that I bought from a chemical supply company and I cannot remember the exact purity but it was one of the top grades. I did not get the same stn on my acros from then on. I figured some kind of contaminant was causing the issues in spectracide.

 

[ikolbaba06]

Oh and my acros all turned green from the pale colors they were. It’s taken months to get any color other than green. Like 6+ months. I have since stopped dosing nopox and have tried to keep nitrate and phosphate detectable on my test kits.

 

[JMetaxas]

Buy Potassium Nitrate, Food Grade on Amazon. It's about $8 or so.

 

[aarbutina]

I had a similar result as you. I started dosing spectracide and soon thereafter my acros had slow tissue recession at the bases and I lost a few. I switched to potassium nitrate that I bought from a chemical supply company and I cannot remember the exact purity but it was one of the top grades. I did not get the same stn on my acros from then on. I figured some kind of contaminant was causing the issues in spectracide.

I sense a trend forming.

While I fully acknowledge the use of a food grade or better yet a laboratory grade is the best option, there are plenty of folks who are actually using the stump remover and experiencing great results. I wonder if there is some lot to lot variation that is impacting the trace impurity profile of the Spectracide. From my work experience I know that it is very easy for trace amount of metals and other contaminants to make it into ever highly controlled pharmaceutical grade raw chemicals, it is not a stretch to think that something used to rot a tree stump could be caulk full of nasties even if the claim is to be 100% pure KNO3.