Has anyone successfully raised Sunshine Chromis from fry?

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Hey all,
So I have a breeding pair of sunshine chromis in my reef tank. They have laid 3 batches of eggs that I’ve seen so far, and by the third day, all the eggs are gone (I’m guessing the snails knock them off or my purple tang eats them).

I managed to collect and hatch a handful from the second egg clutch, but the fry died 24 hours later (died when I tried to add more water to the holding container I think). I collected about 50 or so from the third clutch, and they are incubating, not hatched yet. I built a small system for rearing the fry, and have rotifers on hand, but, does anyone know of someone who successfully raised them?

Thanks all!!
 

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The only Chromis spp. I'm aware that have been aquacultured successfully are C. viridis,* C. ovalis,** and C. cyanea (which is currently considered Azurina cyanea - since it's a different genus, I'm not sure how applicable the rearing methods would be from it, but I figured I would list it anyway in case it helps).*** The pages with info on the rearing of these species are linked below.

And, here's some general aquaculture advice:
"Based on this, I'd assume you'll probably need more than rotifers - I'd guess you'd need Parvocalanus crassirostris pods (or other, super tiny pods - but Parvocalanus are by far the easiest to find on the market at the moment), and you'll probably build up slowly from Parvo nauplii to Artemia nauplii over the course of the rearing.

Some general advice that might help:
- Have a tank ready to move the larvae into (basically a tank with an air stone, a dim light, and a heater - a kreisel tank is ideal, but not necessary; you don't want a filter, a skimmer, uncovered pumps/powerheads, etc. - it needs to be as pelagic larvae safe as possible).
- Be prepared to catch the young when they hatch (ideally, you'd be able to move the eggs immediately before hatching into the new tank, but I'm assuming you don't know exactly when they'll hatch) - catch them and move them into the larval rearing tank as soon as possible.
ISpeakForTheSeas said:
Assuming you have fertile eggs, the advice I would give is this:
- if possible, get some Parvocalanus crassirostris pods too (rotifers are great, and I would expect the larvae to go for them, but some fish larvae are picky and prefer pods over rotifers - having both seems like a good way to ensure you have good, small foods for them... Artemia and other larger pod species would likely be good to have on hand too for the larvae as they grow.

- Get various sizes of very fine sieves so you can control the size of the feeders being offered to the larvae as/if needed.

- Add phyto directly to the larval rearing tank. It’s a good method of ensuring that the feeders are gut-loaded and healthy, and it makes them easier for the fish to see (better feeding/survival rates are typically observed with this method).
- Observe and note information about the larvae (things like how big the eggs are, how big the larvae are, when the larvae settle, when coloration comes in, etc.) and the larval behaviors (stuff like if they are attracted to light, how they react to light, if they are attracted to certain colors, what feeders they eat and what what sizes of feeders they eat at what days post hatch, what kind of substrate they prefer to settle on, are they cannibalistic, etc.).

- Watch for developmental bottlenecks and issues with your rearing methods.

- A lot of people run into feeder issues their first few times breeding, so I’d have a backup plan in place to be able to get some feeders quickly if you find yourself needing some.
With regards to the sieves and feeder sizes:
- You may need to screen the feed initially to only offer Parvocalanus nauplii.
- Observing the larvae eating when/if possible is important for telling if they are accepting/able to eat the food you are offering them.
ISpeakForTheSeas said:
Generally the main thing to watch for at this stage is a bottleneck where the young start dying off - these usually happen after a few days (day three post hatch seems to be one of the most common bottleneck days for fish that hatch with a yolk they can feed off of - if the rots and phyto don’t provide the proper nutrition for these guys, you might see a die off sometime around here). Some fish run into multiple bottlenecks, including some that happen around/after 2-3 weeks post hatch, so you really need to keep an eye on how things are going. Bottlenecks typically occur because the food the fry is eating isn’t nutritious enough for them, or they’re not interested in eating the food offered, or the food isn’t the proper size for them to eat.
ISpeakForTheSeas said:
if you do run into a bottleneck and lose this batch, don’t get too disappointed by it - this happens frequently in trying to breed a new species (even to the professionals), and every attempt gets one step closer to success.
With regards to the substrate settlement:
- Some species need sand, rock, dark areas, specific colors, or other oddly specific things to settle on/in (from what I've seen, inverts are usually a lot more picky with this), so it may help to have a ledge or cave (PVC should be fine for this, if it's even needed, which I honestly kind of doubt) and a little sand in the larval rearing tank.


That’s all I can think of at the moment - hope it helps!"

*Rising Tide Conservation
**Frank Baensch
***New England Aquarium
 
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Awesome!!! Thank you so much.

Yeah, I figured I’d possibly need parvo because the newborns were tiny, but, trying my hand with rotifers first. I e maintained a parvo culture in the past successfully, but didn’t want to go down the path of having to keep yet another separate isochrysis culture just for the parvo and then having to go through the feeding regiment again.
Will see how this goes, I already have the eggs in a separate culture systemwill see how it works.

this is a huge help, thank you!!!
 

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This is a great writeup ^^

Only thing I'd add is if talking to an actual person might be helpful as far as having someone to bounce thoughts and questions off of, give the ORA or Biota folks a call. I've called to ask various questions (albeit not about fry rearing) and they were very helpful and always happy to help. Worth a quick call, I'm sure they'd be happy to share some knowledge especially if it's not a species they already sell. Good luck!
 

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Awesome!!! Thank you so much.

Yeah, I figured I’d possibly need parvo because the newborns were tiny, but, trying my hand with rotifers first. I e maintained a parvo culture in the past successfully, but didn’t want to go down the path of having to keep yet another separate isochrysis culture just for the parvo and then having to go through the feeding regiment again.
Will see how this goes, I already have the eggs in a separate culture systemwill see how it works.

this is a huge help, thank you!!!
Keep us updated on how it goes - good luck!
 
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CDW and ISpeakforthr seas, these are great ideas and definitely will. I just got off the phone with some of the folks from reed mariculture and trying to set up an order for getting parvo the beginning of next week. Going to start an infusoria culture tonight and going to try and feed a mix of infusoria and rotifers and see if that works to tide them over till the parvo culture is ready. From the last clutch I lost the babies had yoke sacs and no mouths on day one of hatching, so I’m assuming I have around 48 hours from hatch to start feeding them.

just checked on the eggs and they are starting to wiggle, so they’ll probably hatch tonight, will see how this goes.

not really sure why I do this to myself………sooooo many projects………….lol
 
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Ok, so, I figure I’m going to keep this thread going to log my failures and success if I ever get there.

it looks like I may have lost this third clutch of eggs. I found a couple of fish out of the eggs dead, but many of the eggs have not hatched yet. In looking at the eggs, many of them look partially developed, and the embryos had eye spots, but they didn’t hatch, or at least haven’t yet (will keep them in a there for a few days longer.

I believe what may have happened could be:

Waters too cold (around 70 degrees with no heater)

the area where the fish are within the culture system has no aeration (which I thought may have been better because the last clutch that hatched had no aeration). I when I first collected the eggs, I had also put them in a low dosage of safeguard (fenbendazole) in trying to Clean off any parasites, but that may not be the right thing to use. Will try looking into possible other things I might be able to use to clean them.
 

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Ok, so, I figure I’m going to keep this thread going to log my failures and success if I ever get there.

it looks like I may have lost this third clutch of eggs. I found a couple of fish out of the eggs dead, but many of the eggs have not hatched yet. In looking at the eggs, many of them look partially developed, and the embryos had eye spots, but they didn’t hatch, or at least haven’t yet (will keep them in a there for a few days longer.

I believe what may have happened could be:

Waters too cold (around 70 degrees with no heater)

the area where the fish are within the culture system has no aeration (which I thought may have been better because the last clutch that hatched had no aeration). I when I first collected the eggs, I had also put them in a low dosage of safeguard (fenbendazole) in trying to Clean off any parasites, but that may not be the right thing to use. Will try looking into possible other things I might be able to use to clean them.
Glad to hear that you’ll be documenting your efforts!

Water temperature directly impacts the development time and survival rates of eggs; lower temps = longer development time (in some cases, dropping the temperature a few degrees can change the hatch date by a few days, so as long as it was within a tolerable range for the chromis, your eggs may still hatch). Most fish have an ideal temperature range for the larval development, growth, and survival (for most tropical reef fish, right around 78-83F seems to be considered ideal from what I’ve seen, so you probably want to keep temps above 75F).

Generally, low turbulence and low flow is probably a good idea, but in most cases you want at least some flow/aeration (some fish species- like clownfish- actually aerate the eggs themselves, which is a large part of why one or both parents spend so much time tending to the eggs) - this is part of why air stones are commonly used in breeding. The flow/aeration is not only necessary in many cases for the eggs, but it’s also useful for keeping their foods in suspension for them to eat after they hatch (which helps to not only encourage more eating by the larvae, but also helps to prevent a whole host of other issues like jaw deformities which may occur if the larvae are constantly scraping their food off the tank walls/floor - these are some reasons why kreisel tanks are the gold-standard for aquaculture at this point).

Regarding cleaning the eggs to prevent parasites, I wouldn’t worry too much about parasites coming with the eggs into the rearing tanks at this point; the odds of parasites transferring with eggs (while not zero) are incredibly low, and any sort of treatment trying to get rid of the parasites may harm the eggs/larval development. Personally, I would try to rear a batch before worrying about parasites at all (if for no other reason than to make sure I can at least hatch the eggs before trying any anti-parasite treatments on them that might prevent their hatching), and if parasites do turn out to be a concern, I’d run the broodstock (the breeding fish) tank fallow and put the broodstock through a proper quarantine treatment, then try breeding them again. That way, with good biosecurity for the broodstock tank, parasites wouldn’t be an issue for the rearing tank at all. (As things are, however, I would not recommend a fallow and treatment period for your chromis at the moment; the reason being that I’ve read through quite a few aquaculture papers and threads and I have never heard of parasites causing problems for the larvae in their rearing tank, but I have heard of numerous cases where something changed in the broodstock’s environment and they stopped breeding - at this point, I’d be much more concerned about stressing the broodstock enough that they stop breeding then I would be about parasites killing off the larvae.)

So, I’d personally try rearing the eggs without an anti-parasite treatment at this point, and I’d personally only try to figure out a treatment if it proves to be necessary (again, I’d do a fallow and QT if it’s necessary, but I wouldn’t do it until then at this point).
 
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Glad to hear that you’ll be documenting your efforts!

Water temperature directly impacts the development time and survival rates of eggs; lower temps = longer development time (in some cases, dropping the temperature a few degrees can change the hatch date by a few days, so as long as it was within a tolerable range for the chromis, your eggs may still hatch). Most fish have an ideal temperature range for the larval development, growth, and survival (for most tropical reef fish, right around 78-83F seems to be considered ideal from what I’ve seen, so you probably want to keep temps above 75F).

Generally, low turbulence and low flow is probably a good idea, but in most cases you want at least some flow/aeration (some fish species- like clownfish- actually aerate the eggs themselves, which is a large part of why one or both parents spend so much time tending to the eggs) - this is part of why air stones are commonly used in breeding. The flow/aeration is not only necessary in many cases for the eggs, but it’s also useful for keeping their foods in suspension for them to eat after they hatch (which helps to not only encourage more eating by the larvae, but also helps to prevent a whole host of other issues like jaw deformities which may occur if the larvae are constantly scraping their food off the tank walls/floor - these are some reasons why kreisel tanks are the gold-standard for aquaculture at this point).

Regarding cleaning the eggs to prevent parasites, I wouldn’t worry too much about parasites coming with the eggs into the rearing tanks at this point; the odds of parasites transferring with eggs (while not zero) are incredibly low, and any sort of treatment trying to get rid of the parasites may harm the eggs/larval development. Personally, I would try to rear a batch before worrying about parasites at all (if for no other reason than to make sure I can at least hatch the eggs before trying any anti-parasite treatments on them that might prevent their hatching), and if parasites do turn out to be a concern, I’d run the broodstock (the breeding fish) tank fallow and put the broodstock through a proper quarantine treatment, then try breeding them again. That way, with good biosecurity for the broodstock tank, parasites wouldn’t be an issue for the rearing tank at all. (As things are, however, I would not recommend a fallow and treatment period for your chromis at the moment; the reason being that I’ve read through quite a few aquaculture papers and threads and I have never heard of parasites causing problems for the larvae in their rearing tank, but I have heard of numerous cases where something changed in the broodstock’s environment and they stopped breeding - at this point, I’d be much more concerned about stressing the broodstock enough that they stop breeding then I would be about parasites killing off the larvae.)

So, I’d personally try rearing the eggs without an anti-parasite treatment at this point, and I’d personally only try to figure out a treatment if it proves to be necessary (again, I’d do a fallow and QT if it’s necessary, but I wouldn’t do it until then at this point).
This is fantastic information ispeakforthereefs, thank you for putting in the time with this post, this makes a lot of sense. Right now the “parents” are in my main display tank in the living room, and, since they are laying eggs there, don’t want to move them and disrupt their rhythm. What I’ll keep trying to do is transfer the eggs into the specimen container and see what works for hatching . It’s 2 half gallon deli containers (which contain the eggs) plumbed into a 1 gallon jar (which contain the food and water for water changing) so going to keep trying with this at least for now, but I’ll get a 5w heater tomorrow and add it to the 1 gallon jar to see if it can warm up the water a bit. Will keep you guys posted.
 
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Ok, so, just to keep a log of this, I added airlines to the culture vessel. Adding a pic of it for reference. I also ordered a new microscope so possibly for the next batch I may take pics of the egg development. I also checked the ammonia and looks like I was at 1ppm, possibly from the eggs breaking down, so put a cube of cycled marine pure into the 1 gallon jar to try and control ammonia. Hopefully will help control things.

7D831DB1-2F5E-4B31-A99C-667468864C57.jpeg
 
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Ok, so, had another egg laying today, letting the eggs sit in the tank 24 hours to let the male tend to the eggs for a bit before I remove it. I’m also following up on the kessil tank idea and bought two small fish bowls, building a new culturing system and letting the epoxy putty cure overnight before I finish building it to put the new eggs in. Also bought some beneficial bacteria to add to the mariner pure to help the bacteria population come up to handle the ammonia.

will post more once I get the new system up and running, but wanted to post some notes on the breeding display. It looks like of the three chromis I have, two are male and one is female. I was home from work today and watched the courting display.

Both males took an area about a foot and a half away from each other on the left of the tank, and the female seemed to stayed at the right of the tank. The males stayed close to the area that they wanted to breed on, and both would dash up and down the side of the tank, swimming up vertically at normal speed, then dashing quickly downward like they were diving. Every couple of minutes each of them would stop dashing for a few seconds and flutter their fins (the same motion they make when they are fertilizing the eggs). The female stayed mid level on the right of the tank watching both the males, and both males kept up with their courting display for about a half hour. The female then heads toward the smaller of the two males, and she swoops in, then flutters with the male, then she dashes back to her original spot. The bigger male at this time stays in his spot while the female is responding to the smaller male, but once she goes back to her original spot, both males start their courtship displays again. After about 3-5 minutes the female then goes back into the area of the smaller male again and does the same fluttering with him , then returns back to her spot to watch the two males. This repeats a total of about 4-5 times, then on the fifth time she then goes in, flutters with the smaller male for a bit, then starts laying her eggs. The smaller male then alternates with her in egg laying and then fertilizing the egg trail. At this point I guess the bigger male is mad, and after about 30 seconds of egg laying, the bigger male dashes in to chase both of the fish. The female runs back to her spot and the smaller male dashes out of the way, but then quickly turns back on the bigger male and chases the bigger male to the other side of the tank. The bigger male then returns to his spot, and both males do their courting display again and after a few minutes the female goes back to the area of the smaller male and starts laying eggs again. The big male dashes in again and the same thing happens (female goes back to her spot, smaller male chases the bigger male back). This continues for about 3-4 times, until the female has laid all her eggs. The female them leaves and the smaller male stays with the eggs, and guards then from any fish wandering in.

will extract as many eggs as I can tomorrow and put into the new system. Will see how this goes tomorrow.
 
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Ok new Kreisel tank set up. I extracted the eggs and put them in. Will see how this goes. I have the parvo coming on Tuesday and probably won’t be able to use them for a week to let the density rise, but my infusoria culture is about ready, and rotifers and apocyclops cultures are going well. So will see how it goes.
5E31C86D-8C40-4E93-A8FE-11E05D0B1BDE.jpeg
 
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Ok so quick update, last night around 1:30am I was cleaning up and decided to collect a couple of the eggs and look at them under the microscope I have. The cluster of eggs under the scope had developed embryos in them, and the embryos were twitching every couple of seconds or so, so as of last night they were still alive. I did a 20% water change, added some rotifers and apocyclops to the main jar with live phyto then went to bed.

came back in the morning and it looks like I added to much phyto, can’t see anything in the tank vessel through the phyto, lol. Did another 20% water change with clean water and headed out. Will check on them again later.
 
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Ok another quick update. Checked on the tank again tonight and the phyto is still pretty dense, so did another 20% water change and once it cleared up for me to be able to barely see the bottom, I collected some of the eggs and put them under the microscope I have (hopefully getting a better one in a few days).

the pic below is from one of the egg clusters. You can see from the black spots how the tail is forming on them. I also noticed some of the eggs were turning gray, which I believe are dead embryos (the focus with this microscope is horrible, but when you focus just on the gray eggs it is a formed embryo but it’s not moving, so I believe those are dead. The ones which look crystal clear would make a roiling motion in the egg every 5 seconds or so, like a snake in a shell, so those in the crystal clear eggs are derfinitely alive).
AAEDB298-FFD9-4764-BDCC-146ABF2E4987.jpeg


another image below from another egg cluster. A lot of gray embryos in this cluster, and none moving, but the ones which look crystal clear are rolling every 5 seconds, so those are definitely alive.in one of the eggs to the upper left, you can also see the eye spots beginning to form on that one.
59AD4238-483A-4F95-9CB5-CABAAB94422B.jpeg

Not sure how much longer until they hatch, and not sure if they will survive. I have read about fish dying from sudden Death syndrome from lights turning on or off too rapidly, so have been keeping one section of my basement constantly lit over the eggs 24/7 to not shock them, but have also been reading that the photo cycle of lights on and off help the eggs to hatch, so if this cluster doesn’t make it I may go back to having the lights turn on and off. Will see how this cluster goes though.
 
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One more update before bed. Checked the system one more time, and, we have swimmers!!! I looked for a minute or two, shining a light from the back of the fishbowl toward me, and saw a small fry, just a little thicker than a hair with a head, drifting through the water. I thought it was dead at first but after a few seconds it cooled itself and straightened very quickly to dash forward. I kept looking and so far I saw three in the left tank and two to the right, so they are hatching tonight, approximately 60 to 65 hours after the eggs were first laid.
Will check on them in the morning to see how many hatched, keeping the lights on overnight again.
 
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Ok, so, checked on the system this morning and it couldn’t count them really well through the phyto, but looks to be about 15 or so swimmers between the two fishbowls, and they are rolling through the circular flow of the fishbowl slowly, jetting forward every couple of seconds (coiling then straightening out quickly to shoot forward).
I collected one of the swimmers and took a pic under the microscope:
A67CB49E-AC2F-4248-8826-8521CB6A134C.jpeg

3B4452FE-FF75-481A-8A35-3663992C2008.jpeg

I then took a pic of a rotifer for comparison, not sure if the rotifers will be small enough for them but it looks close for a good fit:

63E2E41C-72D8-4005-9B7C-B6F620E46676.jpeg
 
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Ok, so another quick update. It looks like I lost most of the fry, when I check the fish bowls, I am able to only see two floating around in each bowl, but, the four floating around are still alive. It looks like they spend most of their time drifting now, not a lot of dashing like the day before. In looking at their size as well without magnification, it looks like the adult apocyclops are almost the size of their entire head, so I’m guessing the apocyclops is not a good first food for these fry. In the fish bowl I also saw barely any rotifers, and I have been feeding both rotifers and apocyclops twice daily, so I’m guessing that they are eating the rotifers but can’t eat the apocyclops yet. I managed to catch one with a pipette, which wasn’t easy because they dash a good 3-4 inches at a time now whenever they sense movement. Also got a slightly better microscope, and was only able to get one image before the battery died on it (just set it up). The pic is below though, they have developed eyes now and the yolk sac is gone:
AC595FF2-0AE2-425E-AA34-7087B0971DBD.jpeg

Will try and see if I can get better images tomorrow.

the parvocalanus also came in today, and, it’ll be about a week until I am able to harvest them, but, will try with just rotifers and the parvo as first foods for the next round of eggs. Going to continue trying with these 4 though, will see how far they get.
 
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So I checked the fish bowls this morning didn’t see any of the fish and it looks like the apocyclops has taken over the fish bowls, so I believe the apocyclops is simply not small enough for the fry. For the next round, I may just try rotifers and parvocalanus.
 

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Yeah, you'll probably want food closer to like 10-15% the size of the larval head, so you may need to get some sieves and strain the feeders through them if the rotifers and Parvo pods are too large. Since it sounds like they may be eating the rotifers though, I'd suggest trying just the rotifers and the Parvo pods like you have planned, and I'd suggest (if possible) feeding these things more frequently than just twice daily (basically the more often you can feed the larvae, the better; I'd suggest 3-5 times a day, depending on the fish). If you can't feed more than twice a day, it may be beneficial to increase the number of feeders offered.

Some info to help give an idea on feeder size restrictions for larval fish:
Yeah, the one I'm familiar with is "Apogon quadrifasciatus" (with the accepted name of Ostorhinchus fasciatus). They were kept at 29C (84.2F) and the eggs hatched after 5 days (I'd imagine at normal temps 7-8 would be about right).

"The average total length of the newly hatched larvae was 2.6mm with an average mouth gape of 160 μm."*

"most marine fish larvae consume prey that are only 20% of their total gape."**

So, assuming these guys are in a similar boat because they're in the same genus, they're likely going to need tiny feeds. As a note here, Bangaii Cardinals, Pterapogon kauderni, are actually in a different genus and - as mentioned above - seem to have different reproductive strategies than the "average" cardinalfish.
*Source:
**Source:
 
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Yeah, you'll probably want food closer to like 10-15% the size of the larval head, so you may need to get some sieves and strain the feeders through them if the rotifers and Parvo pods are too large. Since it sounds like they may be eating the rotifers though, I'd suggest trying just the rotifers and the Parvo pods like you have planned, and I'd suggest (if possible) feeding these things more frequently than just twice daily (basically the more often you can feed the larvae, the better; I'd suggest 3-5 times a day, depending on the fish). If you can't feed more than twice a day, it may be beneficial to increase the number of feeders offered.

Some info to help give an idea on feeder size restrictions for larval fish:
Thirst are really good thoughts, thanks ISFTR!!!
The 10% from head size rule makes a lot of sense, so I think ultimately it might be the parvo that will work in the end. Since I just got the parvo yesterday though, gonna take about a week before I could feed the mauplii in full force.

I upgraded the apocyclops/rotifer/parvo culture vessels to 2 gallon jars. What I’m planning is to keep 2 gallons for the apocyclops and the rotifers, and split the parvo to have 2 two gallon jars, which if the culture is successful should be more than enough maulvi production. I’m going to calculate out the harvest rate with those containers tonight, and will post them so at least it’s on here.

just checked again and found no swimmers, so I think they are all dead, going to empty the vessel and rinse them out to get the apocyclops out, then going to start again. The chromis just laid another batch of eggs today, and I didn’t notice them yesterday but I caught the chromis doing his courting display yesterday afternoons when n, so I think the eggs were laid last night, I just didn’t see them. Going to transfer the eggs to the clean containsers and once I see them close to hatching will try with just the rotifers this time, until the parvo is ready to harvest.
 
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