Has the hobby gotten too expensive and how does it compare to the past?

[Oldreefer44]

The other side of the equation is; How many of those reef oriented businesses you see on those old magazine pages are still around? I am guessing that it is very few to none. So was it poor management, margins that were too low, loss of interest or the ebb and flow of hobbyist enthusiasm? I am guessing that it is all of the above because you need success in all of the above to stay in business. We continue to see merchants come and go at about the same rate which says to me that nobody is getting rich off of us hobbyists. The key is competition and as long as BRS 9and others) can stay competitive with Amazon then we all win. It is up to us to make sure that it stays that way.

 

[srad750c]

You can still get a 40g breeder for $40-50 during Petco $1 gallon sale.

You can still get the same basic cheap mushrooms for $5 a frag, or even free at times from locals.

If you want a set up like one from 1988, and the same basic corals that were around that time, I’m sure the price would be very similar and even cheaper Bc locals hand out basic stuff for free all the time.

So, technically the hobby isn’t getting more expensive. It’s becoming more advanced. You choose how much you want to spend and go with basic materials or high end.

Tons of people that set it up the same way as 1988 with great results, but there are those that want the best of best and willing to dish out the $$ to get it.


Also regarding Fish, it will vary.

Around SoCal a chromis is $3 , yellow tang $20-30, flame angle $30, pair of clowns $20+ depending on what kind. Sometimes even cheaper, blue tang, $30+, etc

You guys have great prices, over here in RTP, damsel is $6, yellow tangs $35, flame angel $50-75, clown pair $50+ but I did score a very nice purple tang for $90, they’re usually $150 for the size. But those are not far off from 20+ years ago. Corals on the other hand are lot more expensive. You can still find deals. I remember when you got a frogspawn coral you got what we call a colony. Now you get one head for the same price

 

[srad750c]

Well I’ve only been in the hobby a year now, but every one I know warned me how expensive it would be. Everything is more expensive now then in the past. I would be anxious to hear anything that’s cheaper now then 20 years ago. Great article are great points made.

A few things are actually cheaper or the same, just depends on what you want in setup. After buying some new equipment 3 years ago, I find myself possibly going back to old school ways

 

[Sea MunnKey]

"WOW" corals are strictly because of super saturated LED illumination effect ... extreme synthetic colours

 

[Falcon53]

My father and I started keeping marines in 1968 , back then you had to use a undergravel filter with crushed cockel shell for the gravel layer, tap water , no R/o available then and ordinary freshwater tropical fish lighting. Yes things were cheaper, but fish died awfully fast, so you bought a lot more , making it more expensive probably than today. one thing though, the living rock was real , straight out the ocean full of life, not the sterile junk you get today

"Yes things were cheaper, but fish died awfully fast, so you bought a lot more , making it more expensive probably than today."

This is a great point and something that I hadn't considered. I personally have had all the fish in my system for several years. I don't really spend money on fish!

"...the living rock was real , straight out the ocean full of life, not the sterile junk you get today."

This is most likely the result of increases in regulation.

 

[Falcon53]

"WOW" corals are strictly because of super saturated LED illumination effect ... extreme synthetic colours

Not true in all cases. I have seen hundreds of corals from Jason Fox in person - and I own some of them - and they look as good in person as they do in the photos. Obviously, not everyone is honest though.

 

[srad750c]

The other side of the equation is; How many of those reef oriented businesses you see on those old magazine pages are still around? I am guessing that it is very few to none. So was it poor management, margins that were too low, loss of interest or the ebb and flow of hobbyist enthusiasm? I am guessing that it is all of the above because you need success in all of the above to stay in business. We continue to see merchants come and go at about the same rate which says to me that nobody is getting rich off of us hobbyists. The key is competition and as long as BRS 9and others) can stay competitive with Amazon then we all win. It is up to us to make sure that it stays that way.

I noticed that a lot of LFS died out during our last 2 big economic downfalls. I myself cut back. I just so happens I had an existing system and only need simple supplies. Most people wasn’t spending money on their hobbies. As a result a lot of business failed. I don’t think I was necessarily poor management just the economy caused people to focus on necessities.

 

[srad750c]

the good old days,,,, well its not a poor mans hobby. However we have the need to control everything. The hobby has just evolved. It`s like our cell phones... now you can control everything from the next room or even the next state. I remember buying my first black tang back in the 80ts it was 250.00 bucks and i thought to my self Am I fn Nuts? 250.00 for a tang? This is crazy.. But I took the plunge and bought it to go in my 240 gallon tank. A week alter I loved it so much I went back and bought another one.. It`s just a sickness or addiction. My wife says it`s my drug of choice.. I am hooked and can`t stop just ask anyone that know me. It`s out of control and I would have it no other way.. I could have retired now had I not been into fish,, Now I work for fish... thanks for the time warp ....

I have 3 drugs, deep sea fishing, reefing and a dog. Hopefully I can keep it in control.

 

[gcrawford]

Another consideration of modern day is the ability to easily sell the equipment you no longer use or need as well as the ability to buy quality used items in the first place. I recently broke down my second tank and was able to sell the items for about the same amount that I purchased them for years ago. Listing items such as Apex, Ecotech and Kessil yields pretty quick sales if you post at fair prices. Forums such as this and of course the internet they ride on give us the ability to learn from, trade and enjoy with those who have similar interests.

-g

 

[srad750c]

I opened an aquarium shop in Durham NC in '88. I named it Carabensaras. Cara was my wife, Ben, my son, and Sara, my daughter. I divorced it in '95 and went to Respiratory Therapy school. Your article brings back memories. I recently came back to the hobby with a 125 I've had for years. The advances in technology is unbelievable. In my shop, we had not heard yet of a refugium. We were high tech with 'wet/dry trickle' filters and protein skimmers driven with wood air stones. The water on the way down to the trickle filter was partially diverted to go to the top of the protein skimmer and exited from the bottom. So all that was needed was an air pump and a return pump and the entire filter system was working. Reef tanks consisted of ocean 'caught' live rock with anemones added to whatever grew from the rock. Corals were very rare and care to keep them alive even rarer. I sold a 55 with lights and glass top ( a combo ) for $95. That was my loss leader as that is what I paid my wholesaler. Other than the increase in technology, the biggest shock is the increase in fish prices, unbelievable. One of the most expensive fish I sold were flame angels. $29 to $39 with the ones from the Marshall Islands going for around $50. I remember a large purple grouper that was bright red with vivid blue dots, one of the most beautiful fish I've ever seen. I sold him for $60 and thought I had committed highway robbery. I remember the first Harlequin Tusk wrasse we received. They were new to the hobby as far as we knew. With our regular mark-up, we priced it at $65. Everybody thought we were nuts. It sold the first week we had it. I'm working on getting my tank set up. I'm taking my time and reading as much as time will allow from this forum. In my day, there was no such thing as an internet, not even computers that were usable for research. The amount of information now is truly overwhelming, thank goodness. I've got my RO (BRS) unit plumbed in and should be filling my tank within the next few days. Thanks to everyone for posting and wish me luck. rog

I wish I knew about your shop back then, you could have saved me a lot of money. I shopped at Fish Pro’s back in the day, ended up working there for ten years, then Fish World. Just got back into serious reefing 3 years ago. By the way a Harlequin Tusk was a $165 back then, your price was NICE!!!!

 

[srad750c]

I love the price of a Chevron Tang. Here are some from 2000 at a local fish store in San Antonio. And you will notice some things were not that cheap as in liverock.

$6.50/lb for Fiji live rock is a good price, I have some Fiji live rock I got in 1995 for $8.99/lb

 

[srad750c]

I think one thing to consider is the longevity of these systems. If you set up a 1998 system and a 2018 system with all of the equipment outlined here, I think the 1998 system would be a mess in 1-3 years and need to have things switched out or replaced, while I would expect the 2018 system to last 5+ years askng as it's well maintained.

Not so, I still have two 175w MH with original ballast that still work from 1998, two Tunze protein skimmers that I had for 15 years, same 50 and 90 gallon tanks same sump and overflow. Had a Lifeguard Quietone pump For 18 years with minimum service. And I still have two MTC skimmers. One uses lime wood air stones the other is venturi, needs a new pump but it lasted 10 years. I don’t use it cause it wasn’t user friendly to repairs. But I even if I fix it, I think it would be overkill for my system and it doesn’t fit under cabinet

 

[Daltrey]

The date at the top is 1988.

 

[brandon429]

can anyone remind me who in 1998 named Jeff would have been writing troubleshooting tank challenge q and a sessions for those guys/time capsule alert for me

i used to constantly await the new q and a for challenges, and though I can't recall if it was the freshwater version I was reading at the time someone named Jeff was the best troubleshooter. I always wondered how he could have a comeback for all those variations, it was just great. no matter what your fish or tank or readings were doing, he'd have the counter. that's what I always wanted to become.

 

[ca1ore]

The other side of the equation is; How many of those reef oriented businesses you see on those old magazine pages are still around? I am guessing that it is very few to none. So was it poor management, margins that were too low, loss of interest or the ebb and flow of hobbyist enthusiasm? I am guessing that it is all of the above.

20 years is a long time for any company selling into a hobby .... doesn't matter the hobby. I'm also into high end audio and most of the companies that were prominent in 1998 are gone. Heck, half of the S&P200 in 2000 is gone. I don't think reef aquarium businesses are any better or worse in this regard. None of them react particularly well to disruption.

A bit off topic, perhaps , but while we might lament the loss of the LFS (or any hobby-related retailer), the reality is that online is simply a better model. Sure, there are folks that would disagree, but the empirical evidence is quite clear that they are not sufficient to prop up a dying retail model.

 

[Falcon53]

I think people often overestimate the margins these companies make. Developing software, machining precision components for motors, marketing, r&d, etc are not cheap endeavors. These companies are likely pulling an operating margin closer to 15% then the 40%+ of say an apple. I just don’t believe they’re is as much room for downward pricing pressure as people assume. Even competition doesn’t drive down the price which lets you know you are near the basement price on most mid to high end equipment.

This right here. The people saying "equipment should be cheaper" are saying it with no basis in fact. Maybe it should be...the point is nobody knows how much these private companies are making.

Heck, half of the S&P200 in 2000 is gone.

I don't have time to verify this, but it certainly seems plausible. The main difference is that many of the companies in the S&P that went away were acquired. Not too many LFS being acquired. A lot of other companies dropped out of the index, but usually they just got smaller. Half of the S&P didn't cease to exist.

 

[Falcon53]

The date at the top is 1988.

I noticed that, but I thought Mike switched to 1998 for his price analysis. If he was using the 1988 magazine for his prices, then inflation was closer to 125% since then, which would blow the entire idea that the hobby has gotten more expensive out of the water. If we are talking 1988 dollars, the hobby has gotten significantly cheaper.

 

[Mike Paletta]

I used the 1988 cover as it was nicer than than any I had in 1998. Being a hoarder of all things fish I have still have the copies from every year FAMA was out. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Falcon53]

I used the 1988 cover as it was nicer than than any I had in 1998. Being a hoarder of all things fish I have still have the copies from every year FAMA was out. Sorry for the confusion.

So the prices are 1998 prices?

 

[ca1ore]

The main difference is that many of the companies in the S&P that went away were acquired. Not too many LFS being acquired. A lot of other companies dropped out of the index, but usually they just got smaller. Half of the S&P didn't cease to exist.

Of course, though I think folks might be surprised just how many are completely gone. My point was that even large businesses disappear over decades. I wonder what the median survival is of a small business. My favored LFS just closed after over 30 years, but I’d think that an outlier.