Having success with your fish growing old in your tank?

[Neptune 555]

I am trying to find the secret to success and understand the methods employed by reefers who have success keeping fish for 15 years or more! Do share your reef keeping practices!

thanks!
Neptune

 

[KJ]

@Paul B might help you with that answer to your question.

 

[Matt Carden]

The question is, did you read the other method thread by @Paul B and posted this survey to get the answer that Paul has asked for at least 10 times in 50 pages of thread?

 

[Humblefish]

Voted and following!

 

[Matt Carden]

You left one option out:
I never QT just acclimate to display

 

[Matt Carden]

Bump

 

[Neptune 555]

@Humblefish

 

[Neptune 555]

The question is, did you read the other method thread by @Paul B and posted this survey to get the answer that Paul has asked for at least 10 times in 50 pages of thread?

Yes I have read the entire thread! I wanted to try and capture the secret of success in a poll. Is it live food? UV? Ozone? what combination produces the best results? Paul B indicates it is food... I think his UV might be more helpful then he thinks? OR is the answer that others who have 15 year old fish do strict QT and no ich? They may not read the thread bc they have success and are not looking for an alternative method.??

I am updrading and combining two reefs into one large reef. As I do this I want to be sure of my method. my profile does not represent my activity b/c I lost my password and restarted my profile.

thanks!! Looking for the kernals of success. Just found a distributor of LRS foods will be using that when I don't feed LIVE.

thanks!

 

[Paul B]

I think his UV might be more helpful then he thinks? OR is the answer that others who have 15 year old fish do strict QT and no ich?

I have a few fish over 15 years old and one that is 27. My fish normally die only of old age but most of the fish we keep don't have a normal lifespan of 15 years so we won't be able to keep them that long. Clownfish live into their 30s but most of the smaller fish we keep probably won't live past about 10 or 12.
I prefer smaller, interesting fish and don't like the more common fish like tangs and butterflies (which should live to 15 or 20 years)
The gobies, bleenies, wrasses, pipefish etc I like have much shorter lifespans. I have kept watchman gobies from babies and had them die of old age 12 years later. Bangai Cardinals have one of the shortest lifespans of about 3 or 4 years which is unusual for a fish of that size.
(PS I don't use UV)

I am pretty sure my Friend Humblefish is one of the only ones here that have 15 year old quarantined fish, but you can ask other people.

Do share your reef keeping practices!

My practices have been on here for over 10 years and they are controversial as you know. But successful.

You can read this about this topic.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-advantages-of-keeping-a-natural-tank.321718/#post-5650701

 

[Captain Quint]

Great thread with great advice. Over the decades @Paul B and I share many of the same methods/practices.

My basic (but details are involved too) 'in a nutshell' is keeping on top of parameters with good frozen and quality dry food with vitamins and food enticement additive.

I've always had fat, healthy fish which lead a long full life.

Several here have successful ways and have long time marine fishes and some inverts.

@Neptune 555 I believe your thread could possibly help many.

Thanks for starting the thread.

 

[lapin]

Adding something I always wondered about.
Does reproduction change the lifespan of fish?
Grandparent or bachelor / spinster?

 

[mort]

Does reproduction change the lifespan of fish?

Yes but only for some species. Fish like bangaii cardinals and dottybacks invest a lot of energy into reproduction and it can severely shorten their lifespan. Bangaii males spend a lot of time not feeding so its easy to see why they die young. I've had male dottybacks who guarded eggs near constantly for years, die between 3-4 years old and showing real signs of being physically warn out. The females lived on upto 8 or so which is a good age for dottybacks. We see a similar thing with wrasse which can be short lived after turning male simply because they put a lot of effort into defending their territory and breeding.
Clownfish on the other hand don't seem limited by breeding and this is possibly because they are a pretty lazy species and share a lot of the work.

I'd say angelfish, clowns, tangs and species like eels aside, there are relatively few species we commonly keep that you'd see naturally reaching 15 years +.

 

[Paul B]

Adding something I always wondered about.
Does reproduction change the lifespan of fish?
Grandparent or bachelor / spinster?

This is hard to answer as I doubt there is any research on it. But healthy fish are spawning fish. All female fish constantly produce eggs weather there is a good looking male or not. Only fish in great health can spawn.

 

[lapin]

This is hard to answer as I doubt there is any research on it. But healthy fish are spawning fish. All female fish constantly produce eggs weather there is a good looking male or not. Only fish in great health can spawn.

So any male left at last call is good looking enough i assume?

 

[Zionas]

Just stumbled upon this thread.

Regarding Cardinalfish, what has struck me with great curiosity is how Bangaii Cardinals are so short-lived, but the other kind of cardinal commonly offered, the Pajama, has numerous reports of people having kept it for over a decade.

I wonder what could lead to such a difference in lifespans between two species in the same category of fish.

 

[Paul B]

I am not sure but Bangai Cardinals are mouth brooders and spend almost their entire life carrying eggs in their mouth. During that time, they don't eat.
Healthy fish are always pregnant and Bangai's hatch huge live young which has to take some kind of toll on their life but a fish of that size should live at least ten years, But they don't for some reason.

 

[mort]

With bangaii and pyjama cardinals there is a difference in the amount of energy they use when rearing offspring and I think it partially explains the difference, at least for males.
If you consider a male bangaii holds eggs and then larva for 3 weeks, not feeding for the whole time and then often holding eggs again not long after, it's easy to see why they lose condition and die young, having done their bit to further the species. Male pyjamas on the other hand only hold onto eggs for a week or so, meaning they keep better condition.

Another thing to consider is social structure, where bangaii are constantly vying for their place in the hierarchy which can be quite rough. You might not have one dominant individual but bangaii can be brutal and have pushed more than a few clownfish and damsels out of anemones.

One more potential is the gene pool. As bangaii are mass produced, you might loose some vigour but I think a limited population distrubution is more of a problem. If fish are released and don't have to go through the planktonic stage, then they settle near their parents, whereas even with a limited planktonic stage they will be transported a long distance before they settle on the reef. This journey keeps the gene pool stronger but it's just really a matter of evolution and not every fish is designed to live as long.

 

[mort]

Healthy fish are always pregnant and Bangai's hatch huge live young which has to take some kind of toll on their life but a fish of that size should live at least ten years, But they don't for some reason.

Had that conclusion with my dottyback pairs. If I kept the dotty's singly then 8-10 years was a good average lifespan but when they were paired and breeding the male would wear himself out guarding the eggs after a few years, with the female still living for a normal lifespan.
Different species have reproductive strategies and some put everything into the next generation.

 

[Topekoms]

My oldest is about 10 I got it from someone else 8years ago but the oldest out of a store is about 8

 

[Zionas]

That’s very interesting. Thanks for the information. I’m quite amazed that PJ Cardinals can live for over a decade, as demonstrated by a number of posters here and in a couple of other places.

I’m selecting for longevity when it comes to my setup.

I’d assume all of the species I’ve selected for my setup are capable of doing at least a decade, if not two or even three decades.

These are my estimates, feel free to correct me.

-Ocellaris Clowns (25+)

-Marine Betta (30+)

-Flame Hawkfish (12+)

-Pajama Cardinals (10+)

-Chrysiptera damsels (12+)-related to Clownfish

-Basslet (Gramma or Lipoporma or Assessor) (10-15)

-4” dwarf angel (11-16)