Having trouble keeping my water level stable enough to use my ATO safely in an AIO

[Tathamet]

Hi everyone,

I woke up the other day with the water in my tank pretty much exactly flush with the top rim of my tank and my ato reservoir half empty (filled it the night before). Luckily I caught it before it overflowed.

I’m wondering if I could get some ideas on how I can get my new filtration setup working properly and safely with my ATO.

My tank is an old Fluval flex 9 gal (Aio type filtration) that I converted to saltwater about two or three years ago.

Originally Ive never had an issue with my ATO but now that I’ve “upgraded”/modded the AIO section I’m having issues getting it to work without either flooding the tank or just not topping it off enough depending on where my ato sensor is placed (Display = not topping off enough and middle/return pump chamber = over topping/flood).

the upgrade was a new sicce syncra silent 0.5 (185gph) return pump to replace the stock pump since I felt like I didn’t have enough flow through the AIO chambers.

the other upgrade/mod was adding an intank media basket #1 to the first overflow/underflow chamber which blocks off the grate on the underflow section. I had the underflow grate blocked off originally anyway.

So these two upgrades together don’t seem cause an issue but as soon as I put filter floss into the overflow in the Intank media basket I can’t keep the water level stable enough in my display or the aio chambers.

Right now the only thing I can think to do is to either only use the filter floss after a tank cleaning or rock blasting and take it out after an hour or two. Stop using filter floss completely which I’d rather not do but might have to, or possibly cut an emergency overflow into the back wall of the middle or return chamber.

does anyone have any ideas or solutions that I’m maybe not thinking about?

let me know what you think.

 

[Crustaceon]

Cut the filter floss smaller so some flow can bypass it.

 

[gbru316]

Go back to the stock pump.

You're pushing as much water through your AIO filtration as I'm pushing through my 20L sump on my 40 breeder. General guidance is 3-5x tank volume, which is how I'm set up.

You're around 21x.


If you're looking for more flow in your tank, powerheads are the way to accomplish that.

 

[Tathamet]

Cut the filter floss smaller so some flow can bypass it.

Lol such simple solution. Didn’t even think of trying that. Thanks! That will be the first thing I try next.

 

[Tathamet]

Go back to the stock pump.

You're pushing as much water through your AIO filtration as I'm pushing through my 20L sump on my 40 breeder. General guidance is 3-5x tank volume, which is how I'm set up.

You're around 21x.


If you're looking for more flow in your tank, powerheads are the way to accomplish that.

Is that actually an issue though? I do agree that switching back would help with my ATO situation but I always felt the back chamber was pretty stagnant and was always oily on the surface.

either way my intentions were to try to go sps dominant and I’ve always heard very different ranges for turnover rates. even up to 100x.

I do actually have even more flow than just the return pump though lol. I also have a jebao slw-10 on random mode with 3/8 lights on for the speed setting (I’m estimating an extra 50x turnover when it actually randomizes to that speed). This one is designed similarly to a Nero so the flow is pretty spread out. I don’t get much sand movement at all. even with it on the max speed setting and I have fairly fine sand. The return is also split into two with random flow generators added on.

is it really too much? I always felt like I could still possibly ramp it up more haha.

 

[mdb_talon]

either way my intentions were to try to go sps dominant and I’ve always heard very different ranges for turnover rates. even up to 100x.

Lol who are these 100x turnover people! On my 200 that would mean 300+ gallons per MINUTE entering my sump lol.

I am guessing any reference to 100x that you saw was more about flow rates rather than actual turnover through sump.

I aim for 5x personally but would also have no issue if it were 2x or 3x. Most i really heard of people aiming for is 10x.

What is much more important is the flow in the tank. If your turnover is enough to keep constant temp everywhere and cycle water through your filtration a few times an hour i would not worry about that at all. It sounds like you are pushing it to the limit but i think it wont make the tank any better but might make your floors a bit wet.

 

[Tathamet]

Lol who are these 100x turnover people! On my 200 that would mean 300+ gallons per MINUTE entering my sump lol.

I am guessing any reference to 100x that you saw was more about flow rates rather than actual turnover through sump.

I aim for 5x personally but would also have no issue if it were 2x or 3x. Most i really heard of people aiming for is 10x.

What is much more important is the flow in the tank. If your turnover is enough to keep constant temp everywhere and cycle water through your filtration a few times an hour i would not worry about that at all. It sounds like you are pushing it to the limit but i think it wont make the tank any better but might make your floors a bit wet.

ah yes I misunderstood and was referring to flow rate. Thank you for clarifying.

i guess I thought both were kind of the same thing lol. I’m more used to freshwater and canister filters so I didn’t realize you could have too much flow in the sump.

ok I should definitely swap back then lol. No biggie. I believe the stock pump is supposed to be just under 7 times turnover so it should still be more than enough from what you were both saying.

thanks again!

 

[Double monti 61]

I have a 15 gallon tank that I top off using a 1/4 inch tube an air filter inline valve so I can adjust the flow my tank has a black plastic rim and I use it to judge my water level if it is at that level or below it is easy to adjust the flow to add more water when needed I use gallon bottles of distilled water for top off and have never had any problems with the water quality . I usually keep a constant flow of. 1 drop every 7 seconds or increase flow or decrease flow when necessary seems to work for me.

 

[Tathamet]

I have a 15 gallon tank that I top off using a 1/4 inch tube an air filter inline valve so I can adjust the flow my tank has a black plastic rim and I use it to judge my water level if it is at that level or below it is easy to adjust the flow to add more water when needed I use gallon bottles of distilled water for top off and have never had any problems with the water quality . I usually keep a constant flow of. 1 drop every 7 seconds or increase flow or decrease flow when necessary seems to work for me.

I actually used to do this exact same thing on my caridina shrimp tanks (freshwater). I actually have a caridina tank I’m working on setting up at home right now and have a shelf higher than the tank so this should work well for that.

those air filter valves work very nicely for acclimating new inverts too.

 

[Crustaceon]

Lol such simple solution. Didn’t even think of trying that. Thanks! That will be the first thing I try next.

I’d imagine doing this will allow the chambers to balance. I’ve always been under the thinking that filter floss doesn’t need to catching things in the first pass considering how much tank volume flows over them per hour. I also wouldn’t worry about detritus any more than usual making it past the filter floss seeing you’ll always need to clean out the chambers periodically anyways, probably weekly/every two weeks. I actually do the same thing with my 200g system when I feel like my filter sock is about to get to the tipping point of clogging and filling the sock chamber, which would dump a bunch of saturated kalk into the sump via ATO, which is actually a pretty sudden thing and something I should fix permanently. Sometimes it’s just easier to check it in the morning before leaving for work and if I don’t like the look of things, I just leave the sock slightly ajar, which allows a little water to bypass. Works perfectly for me. Hopefully that thought will transfer well to your system too.

 

[Elmer Nicomedez]

You can also look for a larger pore filter floss to either replace the one you use or place above the current. This will make the finer floss less likely to clog in such quick intervals.

 

[nano reef]

Hi everyone,

I woke up the other day with the water in my tank pretty much exactly flush with the top rim of my tank and my ato reservoir half empty (filled it the night before). Luckily I caught it before it overflowed.

I’m wondering if I could get some ideas on how I can get my new filtration setup working properly and safely with my ATO.

My tank is an old Fluval flex 9 gal (Aio type filtration) that I converted to saltwater about two or three years ago.

Originally Ive never had an issue with my ATO but now that I’ve “upgraded”/modded the AIO section I’m having issues getting it to work without either flooding the tank or just not topping it off enough depending on where my ato sensor is placed (Display = not topping off enough and middle/return pump chamber = over topping/flood).

the upgrade was a new sicce syncra silent 0.5 (185gph) return pump to replace the stock pump since I felt like I didn’t have enough flow through the AIO chambers.

the other upgrade/mod was adding an intank media basket #1 to the first overflow/underflow chamber which blocks off the grate on the underflow section. I had the underflow grate blocked off originally anyway.

So these two upgrades together don’t seem cause an issue but as soon as I put filter floss into the overflow in the Intank media basket I can’t keep the water level stable enough in my display or the aio chambers.

Right now the only thing I can think to do is to either only use the filter floss after a tank cleaning or rock blasting and take it out after an hour or two. Stop using filter floss completely which I’d rather not do but might have to, or possibly cut an emergency overflow into the back wall of the middle or return chamber.

does anyone have any ideas or solutions that I’m maybe not thinking about?

let me know what you think.

Why not just top of by hand? Thats what I do with my 20 g nano! My skimmer works perfectly too since its clearly visible when I am in the kichen so I just pull it up higher right after i top off and I only top off every 2 or 3 days and my salinty stays the same which I dont get because I hear salinity rises as it evaporates!!

 

[Nano sapiens]

I have a long running 12g, which is somewhat similar so this may help...

I pay no attention whatsoever to 'flow rate through the chambers' since there's nothing back there but the return pump, heater and thermometer (filter floss is not needed continuously, but you could use it temporarily when you clean the system and are stirring up detritus).

I'm only concerned with flow characteristics within the display, which is somewhere around 22x (Sicce 1.0, 254 gph with a Hydor Rotating Flow device). This produces a good mix of laminar and turbulent flow.

 

[Tathamet]

Why not just top of by hand? Thats what I do with my 20 g nano! My skimmer works perfectly too since its clearly visible when I am in the kichen so I just pull it up higher right after i top off and I only top off every 2 or 3 days and my salinty stays the same which I dont get because I hear salinity rises as it evaporates!!

I used to top off by hand my first year. I even had my ato the whole time. Just never used it. Definitely not a hard thing to do at all but after using an ato on it I don’t really want to go back lol. I still do all my freshwater tanks by hand. Not as consistently as I should though haha.

I have a long running 12g, which is somewhat similar so this may help...

I pay no attention whatsoever to 'flow rate through the chambers' since there's nothing back there but the return pump, heater and thermometer (filter floss is not needed continuously, but you could use it temporarily when you clean the system and are stirring up detritus).

I'm only concerned with flow characteristics within the display, which is somewhere around 22x (Sicce 1.0, 254 gph with a Hydor Rotating Flow device). This produces a good mix of laminar and turbulent flow.

Wow ok interesting thanks! Took a look at your tank. You clearly know what you’re doing lol. Looks amazing! Kudos to you for keeping it going so long as well!

I’ve never seen or heard of the hydor flo before but seems like a nice simple design for a nano. Whereabouts is it in your tank in regards to the surface? my lock line connection is basically just under the waterline so I can’t tell if something like that would work for me or not. In your tank it almost looks like it’s mid way down the back wall. Might just be the angle I’m seeing though.

my wavemaker has a widespread flow like a Nero but since the display is so small (around 14x9x13) ive been wondering if it’s still a bit too direct no matter where I put it.

definitely gives me something to think about. Thanks

 

[Nano sapiens]

Wow ok interesting thanks! Took a look at your tank. You clearly know what you’re doing lol. Looks amazing! Kudos to you for keeping it going so long as well!

I’ve never seen or heard of the hydor flo before but seems like a nice simple design for a nano. Whereabouts is it in your tank in regards to the surface? my lock line connection is basically just under the waterline so I can’t tell if something like that would work for me or not. In your tank it almost looks like it’s mid way down the back wall. Might just be the angle I’m seeing though.

my wavemaker has a widespread flow like a Nero but since the display is so small (around 14x9x13) ive been wondering if it’s still a bit too direct no matter where I put it.

definitely gives me something to think about. Thanks

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words:

I have it angled up to break the surface for gas exchange since it's the only flow in the system.

As an experiment, a couple years back I tried running the tank for ~1/2 year without the Hydor unit and the difference was quite noticeable as the corals showed obvious signs of stress (especially those close enough to receive the strong laminar flow output). By having the flow rotate 360 degrees it gives the corals an intermittent break somewhat similar to what they might experience in nature (mine makes a full rotation every 17 seconds).

 

[Tathamet]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words:

I have it angled up to break the surface for gas exchange since it's the only flow in the system.

As an experiment, a couple years back I tried running the tank for ~1/2 year without the Hydor unit and the difference was quite noticeable as the corals showed obvious signs of stress (especially those close enough to receive the strong laminar flow output). By having the flow rotate 360 degrees it gives the corals an intermittent break somewhat similar to what they might experience in nature (mine makes a full rotation every 17 seconds).

Awesome thanks! It’s definitely something I can do if either of my first two available options don’t work out. Just a matter of drilling a hole and covering up the other.

ill go fully read through and follow along your tank thread as well. I’m sure I’ll learn a thing or two. It should really help me put things into perspective since we have similar sized tanks.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Awesome thanks! It’s definitely something I can do if either of my first two available options don’t work out. Just a matter of drilling a hole and covering up the other.

ill go fully read through and follow along your tank thread as well. I’m sure I’ll learn a thing or two. It should really help me put things into perspective since we have similar sized tanks.

BTW - My main tank thread is at Nano-reef.xxx

 

[Reef.]

I have my ATO on a timer, only comes on 3 times a day for a min each time, I have also used a smaller diameter tubing so the volume the ATO can add to the tank has been reduced by nearly half, even if the pump were to stay on for the full 3 minutes it wouldn’t overflow the tank.but is on long enough to fill the tank to the lvl of the ATO sensor each time it’s on.