Help / Advice

ReefHog10 · Feb 1, 2022

Hate for this to be my first post, but unfortunately it is. Set up my first saltwater tank / Biocube 32 at the first of last month with live sand, and CaribSea life rock (pics to be posted at a later date). Cycled for 3 weeks and am confident this was complete. Added two small clownfish 10 days ago and they have been doing great. Aggressive eaters, swimming together, etc. Noticed yesterday evening, however, that one of the clownfish was breathing fast and not eating well (would go up to food and refuse it - tried normal pellets and frozen brine with no luck). Water parameters last night were consistent with what they've been previously (Ammonia/Nitrite 0; Nitrate 10; Temp 78; pH 8.2; Salinity 1.024). Did a relatively big water change last night (~ 30%; wasn't sure what else I could do). This morning he is mostly hovering at the top of the tank, not swimming as aggressively, and still breathing relatively fast (although not as fast as yesterday evening). Hoping this turns out to be nothing and he recovers, however, if the worst happens, what do I do with the other clown who's acting fine? Could it be some infection? (I don't see anything different coloration wise, spots, etc). Thanks for the input.

MamaMolo · Feb 1, 2022

Is there enough flow? Do you use RODI water? More information would be helpful. My clown fish prefer flake food.

Cell · Feb 1, 2022

Did you quarantine at all?

Not eating and fast breathing could be disease. Let's see if any #MODS are around that can move this thread to the disease forum and get more knowledgeable eyes on it.

ReefHog10 · Feb 1, 2022

I've used premixed saltwater from Petco to begin with (I've tested it each time and so far it has looked good from what I've put in). I did not quarantine this pair as they are the only thing in the tank and I was "semi" treating this as their quarantine before I added anything else. I have the stock return pump with a random flow generator as well as a Sicce Nano pump pushing flow from the opposite side of the tank so I feel like flow is adequate for what I have so far.

ReefHog10 · Feb 1, 2022

Update.. Went home for lunch and the two clownfish seem to be fighting for the first time that I've witnessed it. When I target fed them both a little frozen mysis they both gobbled it up. Maybe doing the clownfish dominance shuffle? Not sure about the fast breathing but maybe that's all part of it?

Sharkbait19 · Feb 2, 2022

Define “semi treating,” any meds that aren’t reef safe going into the dt even before corals can harm them later.
Did you happen to get these fish from petco? Speaking from experience, lack of qt + petco fish inevitably causes disease. Was the fish swimming into the flow at all? You might be seeing early velvet.
Of course, fighting can also cause a clown to be pinned up in the corner, breathing fast.

ReefHog10 · Feb 2, 2022

Just observation - no treatment to date. I did get the fish from petco and right now they are the only thing in the tank so that's what I was referring to in terms of quarantine. Definitely interacting and "fighting" with each other still this morning. Hoping that's all it is. I know there are differing schools of thought in terms of whether or not to pretreat all fish or just observe and treat if issues arise. Do you have any recommendations based on your experience?

Sharkbait19 · Feb 2, 2022

Every time I didn’t treat a fish (or at least qt and observe), I’ve had disease problems. Some people are lucky and never have an issue, but I see it as a matter of time. A qt tank is easier and cheaper than restocking an entire tank. Even if you don’t treat them while in qt (though after recent events for me, I suggest treating in qt as well), it’s still best to observe them outside of the dt to make sure you aren’t putting a potentially sick fish in.
Curious, how big are the clowns? When both are similarly sized, pairing can get a little rocky and there will be more fighting.

ReefHog10 · Feb 2, 2022

The fish are both juveniles - prob 1 1/2" or so. Oddly enough, the one that is acting more submissive is the "larger" one, albeit not by much.

I don't plan to put anything else in the tank for at least a few months so it's just the clowns and what has been built up of my biological filter on rock, sand, filtration, etc. Is there a safe way to treat them in the tank they're in?

Sharkbait19 · Feb 2, 2022

Pics would definitely help to determine if there is any disease. If nothing is wrong, then there really isn’t a reason to treat (considering there aren’t any other fish to infect). Of course it usually can take up to 2 weeks for anything to appear. In the future I do recommend a qt setup to keep existing livestock safe. The most effective treatments for common diseases will harm inverts (even later down the line, as rock absorbs chemicals like copper). Treating in a separate qt is best, as most of the reef safe meds are rather ineffective. This is all dependent on the various parasites and diseases that can infect a tank though. Usually for the most common three: ich, velvet, and brooklynella, it is best to take all fish out of the tank for at least 76 days for ich, or 6 weeks for velvet or brook to starve out any parasites left in the tank and not add anything during that time…not fun, especially when you are just starting.
Welcome to the forum btw! Lots of great knowledge on here!

ReefHog10 · Feb 2, 2022

I will try to get and post some pics this evening when I get home from work. I don't see anything, but would love for someone with more experienced eyes to confirm. Thanks for the help!

ReefHog10 · Feb 3, 2022

Update: Fish appear well, though the one is clearly demonstrating dominance over the other (he's back in a little "cave" and gets run back in any time he tries to come out). Getting them both fed by getting the dominant one distracted in one corner while I feed the other one in the opposite corner. Still haven't figured out a way to get decent pics but will keep trying once the lights come on.

MnFish1 · Feb 3, 2022

This could be multiple things, IMHO.
Most importantly - are the fast breathing symptoms 'resolving' - or worsening. Are they constant or just there after the fish is chased by the other one?

1. You are kind of doing an observation quarantine - with the clowns being the only fish in the tank - and you are observing 'symptoms' - which to me means you should 'do something'
2. Do you know if the 2 clowns came from the same tank (at the LFS?
3. They can certainly be aggressive to each other. Normally 'in a pair' the larger fish is the female - and can be aggressive.
4. I would spend some time (like an hour or 2) - observing to see if you can determine whether its the 'fighting' or 'disease' causing the breathing issue.

If you can't tell - or the breathing is constant - I would remove both fish to a hospital tank. IMHO - since the fish look 'normal' - brookylnella seems less likely. Flukes or velvet are both a possibility - and you could treat for Flukes/velvet with the common treatments.

Keep us updated - PS - though I don't shop there regularly - Petco is not a bad place to buy fish each store has its own policies and procedures - and some Petco's are fine. Some LFS are horrible. I.e. dont feel 'guilty' - and congrats on your first tank

MnFish1 · Feb 3, 2022

@Jay Hemdal, @vetteguy53081, @fishguy242

vetteguy53081 · Feb 3, 2022

Just landed from a flight- will reply in an hour

ReefHog10 · Feb 3, 2022

The breathing definitely appears to have calmed down (when he's not being chased) and he aggressively ate yesterday evening. The fish were in the same tank at the fish store which is why I felt there was little point in separating them at home. Will continue to observe, but my "uneducated" impression is that they both appear well at this point in time.

I've not stated this previously on this forum, but I also have another small QT tank with a coral beauty in it (Same store) that appears well after a few weeks. No plans to put him with the others until all this declares itself one way or the other.

MnFish1 · Feb 3, 2022

One thing I have seen is that clowns (especially when pairing) - can act just like cichlids - with 'displaying', mouth holding, chasing, etc - until they work things out. Since things seem to be improving - IMHO - that can mean 2 things 1. They are working it out. 2. They are recovering from a disease on their own - or I suppose # 3 - its the calm before the storm.

Only mentioning that because of the coral beauty that you're planning to add.

vetteguy53081 · Feb 3, 2022

ReefHog10 said:
Hate for this to be my first post, but unfortunately it is. Set up my first saltwater tank / Biocube 32 at the first of last month with live sand, and CaribSea life rock (pics to be posted at a later date). Cycled for 3 weeks and am confident this was complete. Added two small clownfish 10 days ago and they have been doing great. Aggressive eaters, swimming together, etc. Noticed yesterday evening, however, that one of the clownfish was breathing fast and not eating well (would go up to food and refuse it - tried normal pellets and frozen brine with no luck). Water parameters last night were consistent with what they've been previously (Ammonia/Nitrite 0; Nitrate 10; Temp 78; pH 8.2; Salinity 1.024). Did a relatively big water change last night (~ 30%; wasn't sure what else I could do). This morning he is mostly hovering at the top of the tank, not swimming as aggressively, and still breathing relatively fast (although not as fast as yesterday evening). Hoping this turns out to be nothing and he recovers, however, if the worst happens, what do I do with the other clown who's acting fine? Could it be some infection? (I don't see anything different coloration wise, spots, etc). Thanks for the input.

You may have to isolate the aggressor either in an acclimation box or sump. Its a clown thing known as Hierarchy. The larger is generally a female and the aggressor. As the aggressor, they greedily try to eat most of the food that gets into the tank (which is one reason the males don't grow as large). They will often aggressively protect their home, whether that be an anemone, a nesting site, a clay pot or the entire fish tank. If it attacks your hand when you're trying to clean the glass or it won't let any other fish near its spot, you most likely have a female clownfish.
This is how the social hierarchy works for clownfish: There is one dominant female clownfish, partnered with a male, who is the next most dominant fish. The female is larger (often much larger) than the male. Next are non-mating males and juveniles. They are usually smaller still than the dominant male. If the male mate were to die, the next dominant male would become the mate (if the female accepts him). If the female were to die, then the dominant male would change to female and the next male in line would become the mate.
When an Ocellaris clown submits to the dominant female it is quite a site as the fish will actually turn on its side and shake, almost like a spasm. The female will then usually relent but will often check back to make sure the male stays in line, so to speak.
As you noticed a little less labored breathing, in a few days it subsides, but the behavior of female never stops.