HELP!! Clumping of Sandbed!

stinky

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I've got a 5 inches deep Jaubert sandbed. Since I'm keeping mostly SPS, I've kept my dKH at 11, and Ca at 560ppm. This has worked quite well for me ... till yesterday!!!

In the 1.5 years that I've set up this tank, I've never disturbed the sandbed before. Yesterday, while re-arranging some corals, I noticed that my sandbed was hard like stone!!! Only the top 1/2 inch is "normal". This issue seems to be across the whole tank. This, I think, is due to the overly high dKH & Ca levels.

So far, everything seems to be OK ... water parameters are PERFECT, and corals & fishes are big, fat, and happy.

Can I assume that the sandbed is not breaking down NO3 now?
Is there anyway to break it down back into sand?
Should I leave it alone or tear it down?
Will it suddenly crash and kill my corals?
What should I do???

Worried ... sigh.
 

shred5

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I've got a 5 inches deep Jaubert sandbed. Since I'm keeping mostly SPS, I've kept my dKH at 11, and Ca at 560ppm. This has worked quite well for me ... till yesterday!!!

In the 1.5 years that I've set up this tank, I've never disturbed the sandbed before. Yesterday, while re-arranging some corals, I noticed that my sandbed was hard like stone!!! Only the top 1/2 inch is "normal". This issue seems to be across the whole tank. This, I think, is due to the overly high dKH & Ca levels.

So far, everything seems to be OK ... water parameters are PERFECT, and corals & fishes are big, fat, and happy.

Can I assume that the sandbed is not breaking down NO3 now?
Is there anyway to break it down back into sand?
Should I leave it alone or tear it down?
Will it suddenly crash and kill my corals?
What should I do???

Worried ... sigh.


Your problem might be your calcium levels and dkh are high. You might be getting some precipitation. I would suggest a calcium level of around 420 and dkh at levels around 8 to 10. I would also check your test kits because that almost does not seem right.

Bacteria can fuse the grains of sand together. The sand needs to be moved occasionally by stirring or critters that stir the sand.


I would remove the clumps and add more sand or remove the sandbed altogether if you have the appropriate means to export waste with out it. Remove it slowly though.
Dave
 
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stinky

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Thanks dave ... I've got a 5ft tank ... 50% is covered with rocks, and the other 50% is covered with corals. This will be a HUGE undertaking for me.

Can I leave it alone??

I've got 2 advice from friends ...

1. Introduce sand shifting goby.
2. Reduce KH to 10 and Ca to 380.

Not sure if any of these will work. Any ideas anyone??
 

shred5

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Thanks dave ... I've got a 5ft tank ... 50% is covered with rocks, and the other 50% is covered with corals. This will be a HUGE undertaking for me.

Can I leave it alone??

I've got 2 advice from friends ...

1. Introduce sand shifting goby.
2. Reduce KH to 10 and Ca to 380.

Not sure if any of these will work. Any ideas anyone??

not bad advice. I would shoot for 400 or a little higher on calcium.

I would remove as many of the clumps as possible and add sand to make up for the clumps removed.

A sand sifting goby will usually starve and also eat the critters needed in the sand. Your tank may be big enough for it though. I would try a few fighting conchs and sand siffting cucumbers first to stir up the sand and maybe add detrivour kit..

Dave
 

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Get a new test kit. Your Cal level is off wack. To much Calcium being dissipated and is turning you sand to stone. Check your levels with a new test kit or another brand.
 
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OK ... will slowly reduce Ca, and see if I can remove chunks of the sandbed.

I wonder if the clumping is only a layer, or all the way down to the bottom. If only a layer, I'd remove it and replace with new sand. If all the way to the bottom, I'll leave it alone!!!

Any other advice??
 

Russellaqua

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You're forming what geologists refer to as "beach rock." It's common in intertidal and shallow waters. I'd reduce your calcium to around 450 and dKH to 8-9. That's where I keep mine and have never had a problem. Sand stirring critters like a goby or nassarius snails will also help. I would remove and chunks that you can and maybe add them to the rockwork. They're no longer acting like a sand bed so they might as well be with the rock.
 

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actually....the clumpoing is nto caused by high levels normally. jsut the opposite

its caused by LOW ph and at one point what happened to your sand bed is the same thing that happens isnide a calcium reactor.......the low ph makes the water acidic...it dissolves the calicum carbonate that is your sandbed and it clumps together.

this period of low alkalinity/low ph could have happened weeks or months ago and you just didnt realize it happened
 

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actually....the clumpoing is nto caused by high levels normally. jsut the opposite

its caused by LOW ph and at one point what happened to your sand bed is the same thing that happens isnide a calcium reactor.......the low ph makes the water acidic...it dissolves the calicum carbonate that is your sandbed and it clumps together.

this period of low alkalinity/low ph could have happened weeks or months ago and you just didnt realize it happened


Low ph is only one reason that this can happen, there are several reasons. .. People who use kalkwasser also see this happening and one reason is precipitation. Kalk actually increases ph.

Dave
 

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If It was precipitation it would be happening on top of the sand bed. I think low ph in the sand bed is more likely the problem. The easy way to see if that is what is going on is to take a syringe and use it to slowly pull water from the bottom of the sand bed then test the PH. I would not be surprised to see it below 7. This is caused by anaerobic bacteria that thrives in undisturbed sand beds.
 
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I think I know what happened ... when I first started my tank, I had some KH, Ca, Mg problems for almost 6 months!!! I was constantly fighting to balance the 3 levels with a under powered Ca reactor. In doing so, I over dosed KH & Ca often, and had a lot of precipitation. Finally, I solved my problem by getting a new Ca reactor with much larger capacity.

Today, I tried to remove clumps of the sandbed. After searching for 10 minutes, I could NOT find the edge to the clumps!!! It's as if it is ONE BIG ROCK!!! OMG!!! What options do I have short of using a hammer and chisel??

Since it is already one BIG rock, can I just leave it alone?? Will it crash my tank???

Forgot to mention ... today, my KH = 10, and Ca = 400 ... will continue to keep at this level to see if the situation improves.
 
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Azurel

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I had this issue to and mine was from adding to much Kalk over a long period of time......The Calcium precipitated out and created crystals in the sand bed and fused the sand together, I was told but not sure of the validity of it that lowering the Ca for a long period of time can cause the crystals to dissolve and thus the sand will become lose again......I didn't do that I just pulled my clumps.....Might want to try and see what Wetwebmedia.com has on the issue or Reefkeepers online mag has about it....
 
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I would also check your test kits because that almost does not seem right.

Ha ha ha ... my bad ... test kit not wrong ... my fingers wrong ... Ca not 560ppm, but 460ppm!!!
 
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UPDATE :

My Jaubert setup is as such from base up ... PVC pipe > egg cart > mash > 2 inche 3-5 mm grain sand > 2nd egg cart > 2nd mash > 2nd 2 inche 3-5 mm grain sand

Today, I took a long PVC pipe, and fixed a T-joint to one end. Using the other end, I pushed hard against the sandbed. Before action, I had about 1/2 to 1 inch of loose sand. After action, I measured up to 2 inches loose sand!!!

Looks like my "poke & twist" action is breaking up the clumping!!! YEA!!! As expected, the action released lots of "dust" into the water. After working on about 15% of sandbed my SPS were sliming, and visibility reduced to 50%. So, decided to stop for now.

I think I will work on different portions of the sandbed WEEKLY. Should be more healthy for the sandbed this way.

QUESTION:
1. From my above Jaubert setup, there is a middle eggcard that divides the bottom 2 inches and top 2 inches. I can only get to the top 2 inches unless I tear down the entire sandbed. Is this sufficient, or do I really need to tear down the sandbed??

2. 50% of my surface is covered with rock. Do I need to tear down the entire rock structure, or can I leave it alone?
 

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I haven't had much experience with Jaubert setups, but I'd imagine that if you just loosen up the top portion it'll function essentially like a shallow sand bed with rock underneath it. The top will be good for sand sifting critters, pods, etc, and the bottom will provide some biofiltration. From the sound of it your sand is fairly loosely cemented so I'm not sure I'd move all the rock to loosen up the sand under it. It's still going to be pretty porous and function much like LR would. Maintaining a low Ca and dKH will eventually loosen everything up, but I don't recommend it. The time involved is quite significant, and since coral skeletons are made out of the same thing as your sand, it'll stress the corals as well. They'll have to work to keep from dissolving too. Not something you want to do to them.
 

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Go barebottom and get rid of the stinky sandbed-
 
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ANOTHER UPDATE :

Not wanting to wait till the next week ... and today being a national holiday (he he he), I proceeded to shift the corals and poke my sandbed again. Currently, I've finished prodding all of my non-rock-covered sandbed.

I found that only about 60% to 70% is clumped. For clumped areas, YES, it is loosly clumped. Holding a 1/2 inch piece of clumped sand between my fingers will break loose with mid pressure.

Another observation is that since I'm using 3-5 mm grain sand, even when they are clumped together, there are still small holes between them ... definately enough for water diffusion. Thus, can I assume that it is still functioning as a Jaumbert sandbed??

Overall, I can now give a sigh of relief!! (I think)
 
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I do not even belong in this hobby, you guys are so much smarter than me its scary!!
 
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