Help Diagnosing Disease?

Skross

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Little bit of back story. I have had these clowns for 6 weeks or more now. They were the fish that cycled the tank. Close to 2 weeks ago I added a purple stripped Dottyback. It has seemed to be pretty mild tempered. It does not bother anyone. In fact I have a good sized cleaner shrimp that he doesn't bother either. I was unaware at the time that this could be trouble. Two days after added, I noticed it flashing against the rocks. Of course that put me on red alert, and I've been watching everything meticulously. To this point, I have never seen one mark on the Dottyback. However I am now seeing something on my clowns. Tanks I have had in the past, I have had to deal with Ich, so I am somewhat familiar. This just does not present the same from when I had dealt with it before. Almost seems like patch spots instead of just white dots. Maybe it is though?? I took a video, went to 3 different LFS's, and got 3 different answers. I appreciated the help from all of them, but I just want to be on the correct path to fixing it. I am most frustrated with myself because I knew better than to not quarantine. Kept buying other things instead. This is in a reef setup and I do have corals in already (which all got dipped). I now have a seperate quarantine tank, along with multiple medication options. I'm just not 100% on what to treat for. I will post a couple photos. They are all eating vigorously still. It was mentioned that because you can see one of the clowns is showing white colored feces, that it could be a bacterial or fungus problem. I'm hoping someone can see and know what I'm dealing with?? I really appreciate the help in advance.
My levels are as follows:
Salinity- 35ppt
Ph- 7.8 to 8.2
Ammonia- Zero
Nitrate- 5ppm
Tank runs right around 78.5 Degrees
ORP- Ranges between 380 to 410
I feed 3 times a day, rotating between
Hikari- Seaweed extreme, Piscine- PE pellets, Nyos- Goldpods, & LRS- Reef Frenzy. I also use Selcon with most feedings. I use Willows Reef in addition with corals. Thanks again.
Steve
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Jay Hemdal

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Can you post a short video? Flukes don't really show white spots, and Brooklynella is seen as white mucus in sheets. Velvet would mostly show as rapid breathing. These distinct spots are ich-like, but there is some congestion/milkiness in between the spots that isn't quite right.

One course of action would be a FW dip then move all of the fish to a QT with copper.

Jay
 
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Skross

Skross

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You bet. Thank you for the reply and help looking into this. I did not move them into the QT yet, but I am now. Today is the first that I can see something on the Dottyback. The clowns actually look a little better, but I know how that goes. Nothing on the tang at all so far, but they will all move to QT. Thanks again.
 
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Skross

Skross

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I forgot to add about the white clown. It's breathing seems to be a little fast in the video, but I wouldn't say that's the normal, or what concerns me. To me it seems it's gills are flared out a little more than the normal. Like they're swollen almost? Maybe a little redder as well.
I just noticed a long string of feces on the black clown, so I took another video. Hopefully it can be seen on the video.
 

vetteguy53081

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Looks like lympho on the basslet and brooklynella on the clowns. At the onset, you may have noticed your clowns scraping up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Very quickly the fish will become lethargic, refuse to eat, and its colors will fade. The most noticeable symptom of Brooklynella is the heavy amount of slime that is produced by a fish that has contracted this parasite. As the disease progresses, a thick whitish mucus covers the body. This will usually start at the head and spread outward across the entire body. Skin lesions appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections.
Typical treatment is a standard formalin solution is mixed with either fresh or saltwater in a separate treatment container. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this disease.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank.
 

vetteguy53081

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I forgot to add about the white clown. It's breathing seems to be a little fast in the video, but I wouldn't say that's the normal, or what concerns me. To me it seems it's gills are flared out a little more than the normal. Like they're swollen almost? Maybe a little redder as well.
I just noticed a long string of feces on the black clown, so I took another video. Hopefully it can be seen on the video.
Likely mucus causing this. A freshwater dip at the same temperature as display tank will offer temporary relief but do note that fish is already stressed and FW dip could add to that. Treatment is of essence. As for stringy poop, are you by chance feeding mysis shrimp, brine shrimp or both ?
 
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Skross

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The LRS product is the one I have been using. It says mysis on the back. I just got the Hikari one to rotate in, but have only used one feeding so far. The majority of the feedings are with Piscine pellets, which says it contains PE Mysis. I try to use good food. I chose these options because they had the highest protein and fat #'s between all my local choices. Are there better food options??
I also use Hikari Seaweed extreme pellets, Julian Springs green Seaweed, and coat the pellets and frozen often with Selcon.
 

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Skross

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The Dottyback is the only fish that has scraped its side at all. I don't see any signs of the clowns gasping for air, or staying near the surface. They seem to be acting normal and eating well. I'm not going to assume that will last and things will fix themselves though.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I forgot to add about the white clown. It's breathing seems to be a little fast in the video, but I wouldn't say that's the normal, or what concerns me. To me it seems it's gills are flared out a little more than the normal. Like they're swollen almost? Maybe a little redder as well.
I just noticed a long string of feces on the black clown, so I took another video. Hopefully it can be seen on the video.
Thanks for the videos. As often happens though, they don't give me conclusive symptoms to follow. The black cown is certainly showing heavy mucus, that can be a sign of Brooklynella. The white clowns are at a disadvantage because they won't show mucus like that, but they could still have it. The dottyback may have a protozoan infection as well, its fins look cloudy. I can't see anything on the tang, but sometimes, that just means the fish hasn't caught the issue yet.

The trouble is that copper in a QT is the best treatment for protozoan diseases EXCEPT it doesn't work well for Brooklynella. If they were my fish, I would give them a FW dip and move them to a stable QT and dose with formalin or ruby reef rally pro. However, there are risks to doing that. At this point, just ignore the stringy feces, if there are multiple problems going on, you can't treat for them all at once, and the stringy feces has the better chance of not being anything of consequence.

Jay
 
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Skross

Skross

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I understand completely with the videos. I'm right in front of them and can't say exactly what it is.
My QT is running and matched with the DT. I have Seachem's
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Focus
& Cupramine
Is Formalin a brand product, or a particular chemical/blend?
If I don't have what would be the best option, I'll go out and try to find it?
 

Jay Hemdal

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I looked it up and read about it.
Is it better/more effective to add into the water vs the food coating options I have?
Or is it even better to use as a dip? Thank you for the advise btw.
Formalin is tough to find, and pretty toxic to handle. You can use it as a dip or in a quarantine tank, but never in food. Can you get ruby reef rally pro?
Jay
 

DrZoidburg

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Formalin is another name for formaldehyde. Food coating would be somewhat useless right now as this is on the outside of fish. In the case of the clown it seems you might have two things going on at once. Looks like a mix of brook and ich. With clarity of pictures is hard to really say. Do you have a portable uv? It could slow this down a little or possibly prevent more rapid spread. If this is a fish only qt I dont think it would hurt to start a metro treatment. No uv with meds though.
 
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Skross

Skross

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I couldn't find any Ruby Reef local. I ordered some to have on hand. Unfortunately it doesn't help me now. I did find the Seachem PARAGUARD and brought it home. It boasts to be a safe Formalin substitute.
The food delivery system is Seachem's METROPLEX. Both are advertising to do the same thing, so that's why I questioned which would be the best option. I'm getting the feeling that a dip with the Paraguard, followed with in tank treatment is probably more effective, but more of a risk? Any thoughts?
 

DrZoidburg

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Some infections could cause problems quick. Don't know for sure what they are. Metro plex has metronidazole in it. That could help with one of the things going on. Also no chose one or the other if you have both. Uv would be more of a preventative measure but if you have meds I would go with them first. Uv will degrade the meds. Paraguard has malachite green and glutaraldehyde. Unknown to me if clowns are sensitive to M. green. Plus the paraguard can react with other meds. Paraguard for dips sure, but its in your water column. It would be logical to do a whole tank treatment.
 

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