Help...Green Hair Algae is driving me crazy

[Paul B]

Yes, my thoughts are to not add or remove anything, as I said, it is natural and you don't want to have to start one of those "Getting out of the Hobby threads" where you quit this and go on to be a manager of Burger King running the French Fry machine. This will pass as long as you don't mess with it. Trust me I did the same thing. Only in those days me and Moses only had Mhyrr and Frankincense which probably raises the pH.
It is normal which is why when I give advice I try to add pictures to prove it. In the sea thousands of tangs and other things would eliminate it in a few seconds. I have been diving since we used bamboo to breath through and have seen it many times. If there was no algae growing on every reef why would tangs be the most prevelent fish in the sea and urchins by the millions. I won't even mention snails, slugs, chitens, algae bleenies and manatees. What do people think those things eat? That won't work in a tank unless you can teach those manatees to poop outside the tank but they don't listen.

Look closely at this picture. No, not the Moorish Idol as they are the most common fish in the South Pacific. Look in the holes. You will see a sea urchin in every hole and if you dove there at night you would see so many urchins that you would not see the rocks. They are not eating McDonalds. They are eating algae. Algae is everywhere and one of the things that makes the reef healthy. If it were not for algae all the tangs, urchins etc, would croak.
Algae also makes oxygen. Your Mother breathes oxygen and if it were not for algae making oxygen your Mother would never have been born and if she wasn't born, you probably would not have been born.

Do not add or remove anything, go out to lunch.

 

[Eagle aquatics315]

Hi All,

I know this topic has been played out a million times, and I feel like I've read 20 different threads and watched 50 different youtube videos about how to get rid of Green Hair Algae (GHA), but since I value the expertise and input of folks on R2R, I thought I would ask for your advice about how to solve my own version of the problem. So here goes:

My tank is an Innovative Marine Nuvo Fusion 20 (system volume ~15 gallons). It completed cycling with dry rock in October 2017, which makes it about 6 months old. It currently houses two ocellaris clownfish and 16 coral frags, mostly LPS, with a couple simple SPS (birdsnest, monti, and psammacorra). CUC is two tiny hermits, ~10 cerith snails, and 5 trochus snails.

My current parameters are Calcium 425-475 ppm, Alkalinity 7.8-8.4 dKH, and Magnesium 1,320-1,400 ppm over the last 3 months. My nitrates have never read more than 1 ppm, and my phosphates have never read anything but 0.00 on my Hanna Low Range checker, and maybe 0.01 for my Red Sea test kit. Salinity is very stable at 34.5-35.0, and temperature runs between 77.0-78.0 controlled by Apex. pH could be higher, but stays between 8.0-8.2 99% of the time.

Over the last six months I have used NoPoX, then a macroalgae reactor, then NoPoX again for nutrient export. I've had generally good luck with NoPoX, although I only dose about 0.25 ml per day. My macroalgae reactor was a failed experiment. While using it I stopped dosing NoPoX, but due to low nutrients, my chaeto died twice and ended up serving more as a nutrient source than sync. After the second death I removed the reactor (about 3 weeks ago) and resumed dosing NoPoX.

My GHA problem started about 4 weeks ago after I moved the tank from my old condo to my new house. The move went great, everything survived. During the move, I threw out my old sand (oolite = too fine) and replaced with dead CaribSea Aragonite, special grade. With fresh sand and almost no nuisance algae at the time, I was afraid my CUC would starve, so after the move I started a two week regimen of re-dirtying the tank (probably a bad idea). I reintroduced pods from AlgaeBarn, I fed occasional tiny hikari algae wafers (1 per week), I was dosing phytoplankton daily to feed the pods and dosing Red Sea Reef Energy daily to feed the corals. All along I have fed about 40 tiny hikari marine pellets to my clowns, daily. Needless to say, this was probably too much. However, it's interesting to note that my nitrates never went above 0.25 ppm during this time and phosphates stayed at 0.00. I test all parameters weekly.

After that two week "dirtying" period, I noticed my GHA was starting to change from a thin carpet coating the rocks to long ugly strands 1"+ in length. In the past two weeks they have gotten worse and worse, despite dropping my feeding back to daily pellets for the clowns, only. During the "dirtying", the color of my corals also got much more vivid, and I noticed my first spots of coralline algae appearing.

Now, I'm trying to get rid of the GHA by minimal feeding, dosing NoPoX (even though NO3/PO4 are undetectable), bi-weekly 20% water changes with gravel vacuuming and blowing off all the rocks. I'm also manually removing as much as I can by hand and with a toothbrush, weekly. As always, I change filter socks/pads twice a week. On Sunday night the tank looks great, by the following Saturday its overrun again.

I'm at the point of considering either Phosphate RX (on Melev's Reef's recommendation), or fluconazole (several success stories on R2R and youtube). I just can't afford the time to clean this junk out every weekend, my wife won't have my 4 hour maintenance sessions anymore. So, I need to do something. I'm hoping this group can help me out.

I've attached a couple photos of the stuff for reference. It's growing all over the rocks (you can see it at the edges of the rock) and even in small patches on the substrate. It's browny-green, does not branch or fern at all (like photos I've seen of Bryopsis), and grows in thickets about 1" long.

What is obvious that I'm missing? What can I do differently? What can I do better? What extreme measures should I take or not take?

Get a sea hare they will eat it all within a matter of days, just be careful cause when they do finish it all they usually starve unless you feed them.

 

[grassy_noel]

and you don't want to have to start one of those "Getting out of the Hobby threads" where you quit this and go on to be a manager of Burger King running the French Fry machine.

Hahaha!!! I'll be sure to let you know when I start applying to burger joints.

Ok, I'm just gonna leave things alone. Based on @Paul B and @mcarroll 's advice here's what I'm going to do moving forward:

1. Feed Nyos Gold Pods (non-pellet, non-frozen, "orange" food from the sea) in amounts that my fish/shrimp can finish in 2-3 minutes. I'll adjust my lighting schedule so that I can feed less food twice a day (~5:30 pm and ~8:00 pm).

2. Dose nothing but Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium.

3. Run my lights at ~20,000K spectrum for 6 hours a day. I am currently running a max of 30% intensity at mid day. I have a Seneye PAR meter, which I will break out this weekend to get some general numbers. I'll report back what I get at a few key points in the tank (center and corner at the top and bottom of the water column sound good?)

4. Weekly 20% water changes, during which I will pinch/siphon out as much of the long tufts of GHA that I can grab. I'll also blow off the rocks with a turkey baster and turn up my MP10 for an hour or so to get as much detritus down the overflows as possible.

5. Run nothing but a filter sock/pad (changed twice a week), protein skimmer, and ROx 0.8 carbon for filtration.

And finally, a question:

6. Should I resume dosing Red Sea Reef Energy (amino acid coral food) once per week, or are the corals getting enough nutrients from the uneaten fish food and all of my CUC poop? My Nitrate level is currently 1.5 ppm and Phosphate is 0.02 ppm.

Please let me know if I've misunderstood anything. Otherwise my plan is to continue this regimen until the green hair algae 'cycle' subsides...however long that takes. I have faith!

Thanks!
Noel

 

[mcarroll]

Soulds good overall! No to the aminos, however.

 

[grassy_noel]

Great, thanks!

 

[Paul B]

6. Should I resume dosing Red Sea Reef Energy (amino acid coral food)

No. (Sorry people who make that, whatever it is.)

 

[grassy_noel]

No. (Sorry people who make that, whatever it is.)

Thanks for the follow up!

For what it's worth, Reef Energy is part of Red Sea's Reef Care Program. The whole program includes:

• Foundation Elements (Ca, Alk, Mg)
• Algae Management (NO3O4-X or NoPoX = carbon dosing)
• Coral Nutrition (Reef Energy = carbohydrates, amino acids, and vitamins)
• Trace Colors (trace elements)

This was the program I had been using, solely, since starting my tank in September of last year. I adhered to the plan's instructions pretty closely until everything went to $#!* about two months ago, after my tank move. At this point, I'm down to using only the Foundation Elements for Ca, Alk, and Mg.

Anyway, message received, no coral feeding for now. I'll assume that any calanus missed by my fish and the combined poop of the fish and cleanup crew is sufficient nutrient for the corals. My montis, LPS, and softies are looking pretty good these last few days. My two birdsnests are about 90% dead now. I think their skeletons will be completely bare and ready to be removed from the tank this weekend .

 

[mcarroll]

I wouldn't remove them until the skeletons start growing algae – that's when you really know they're dead. Until then I always hold out a little hope. Corals are onetoughsunuva so it only takes one little piece to bring back the whole thing. (I will say that birdsnests seem to go all/none more than other corals though.)

 

[grassy_noel]

@mcarroll thanks, I’ll keep them around a little longer then.

Also, I broke out my Seneye today. I’m getting between 150-180 PAR just under the water’s surface, dead center, the brightest spot in the tank.

12” down on the substrate dead center, I’m getting about 50-60 PAR. I imagine a bit less at the corners, although I couldn’t get my wrist to bend the right way to measure there.

As I said before, I’m back to running a profile that’s close to 20,000K. It runs 6 hours (1pm-7pm) gradually ramping between 25%-30%-25%. It also ramps from 0-25% and back down an hour each at the beginning and end of the cycle.

Any thoughts? Too little? Too much?

 

[mcarroll]

I'd take your peak levels up 30%.

Maybe do 10% per week to get there.

Room to go higher, but see how that goes.

Bell curve-shaped photoperiod with fairly short sunrise/sunset and peak periods. No more than 12 hours.

 

[grassy_noel]

So, how about this. The first image is my current lighting profile. The second image, I believe is what you're proposing -- taking the mid-point peak up to 40% intensity from 30% intensity, which should take my peak PAR at the surface center from ~180 to ~240 and the center at the substrate from ~60 to ~80 PAR. If that's right, then I would nudge the lights up to that point in 3 weekly increments.

Let me know if I misunderstood. Otherwise, thanks!

 

[grassy_noel]

For what it's worth, I set my lighting profile based on EcoTech's Coral Lab white paper, where they shared the lighting profiles and schedules of a successful coral farm, see below. (This image is copyright to EcoTech, reproduced here for informational purposes, only)

Now that I'm looking more closely, I see two differences between my settings and this recommendation:

1. My profile has a slight ramp from the shoulder points labeled "A." to the mid-point peak of the day. The proposed profile is flat all day, like a plateau as opposed to a bell.
2. They run a 7-hour profile + 2 one hour ramps = 9 hours. I am currently set for a 6-hour profile + 2 one hour ramps = 8 hours. I'll probably extend my schedule to match when the algae issue starts to subside.

 

[mcarroll]

There's very little info in that PDF....like what PAR do their tanks get?

I think you're mostly using that setup profile for the color. I'd be leery of reading much into their promotional materials or taking too much away from it. It's someone else's setup, for a system that's not actually very much like your own.

As for the intensity curve, I like to model the sun...and that's a bell curve.

For two examples, Palau seems to be at 7º latitude and the great barrier reef seems to be at about -18º latitude.

Also, the 1.0 kW/m2 at the chart's peak corresponds to 100,000 lux or 2,000 PAR.

Plug those one at a time into the chart/calculator using the first slider at the top of this link:
http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/calculation-of-solar-insolation

Then use the second slider to see how the day of the year varies day length, intensity, etc.

Just for fun, compare those tropical latitudes above with the sunlight that (e.g.) washington, DC gets, which resides at about 38º.

 

[grassy_noel]

Not that there's much to report, I wanted to say that I'm still here...soldiering on.

I continue to do weekly water changes and pluck sessions. The algae continues to return in 1"+ long tufts after about 5-6 days. I have to imagine that by removing a good size lump of it every week that I'm achieving some significant nutrient export (perhaps removing bound phosphates that I had in my rock/sand?). At this point I'm just crossing my fingers that eventually it will start coming back more slowly...and then hopefully not at all.

My calcium and alkalinity uptake are back up to pre-algae levels, so at least it would seem that my corals and coralline algae are growing once again.

I'm planning to pick up some more cleanup crew later this week: some nassarius snails to stir the substrate; a handful more truchus snails which seem to do the most actual algae eating; and maybe a pincushion urchin although I've heard horror stories of them bulldozing through everything. Any thoughts?

I'll keep checking back just to prove that I haven't given up.

I've also changed my attitude to decide that as long as the algae isn't killing my corals, fish, or inverts, then I don't really mind it. It kinda looks pretty swaying in the current...

 

[mcarroll]

At this point I'm just crossing my fingers that eventually it will start coming back more slowly...and then hopefully not at all.

My calcium and alkalinity uptake are back up to pre-algae levels, so at least it would seem that my corals and coralline algae are growing once again.

Getting that coraline growing is the other major factor (after snails) that will keep the areas you work on clear.

Snails will graze the fresh nubs you make by plucking, but if coraline grows there, it will use up the real-estate for good so green algae won't grow there.

I've also changed my attitude to decide that as long as the algae isn't killing my corals, fish, or inverts, then I don't really mind it. It kinda looks pretty swaying in the current...

You're invincible now – congratulations.

Nobody seems to do it on purpose, but I think a hard-core micro-algae tank would be pretty cool IMO. Should make for an awesome fish tank too.

 

[jtl]

This is one of the most informative threads I have ever read. I started my latest tank 100g net water including a 50g sump about 11 months ago. I am using a Reef Breeders Photon v2+ light fixture. My corals except for a few SPS have done ok but not great. Growth has been slow and color lacking. I have tried many different light settings and have settled on a 20K spectrum peaking for about 4 hours mid day with ramp up and down. I have had a little HA in the tank since early on. It is more brown than green and I can brush it off during weekly maintenance. I never give it a chance to grow into long strands.

After many online conversations I concluded that my PO4 and NO3 were too low. I measure the PO4 using a Hanna ULR checker and the NO3 with a Salifert test kit. I was getting zero on both nutrients. I thought this is good and my limited amount of chaeto in the sump must be doing the job. Wrong. I started dosing nitrate and feeding a little more. Now I am getting (as of yesterday) 2.5 nitrate and .024 phosphate. After a couple of weeks of these levels my corals are getting some color. I only get coraline on my power heads for the most part and my up take of Ca, alk and Mg is flat...although alk did drop this last week to 7 from 9 so I dosed.

The HA is still there, no better and probably no worse. I purchase a bottle of Vibrant and have dosed 3 times in two weeks and I don't see any improvement but perhaps I am expecting too much too early or it just doesn't work. I think I am also going to likely need to dose for PO4 rather than try to boast it by feeding.

 

[mcarroll]

I think I am also going to likely need to dose for PO4 rather than try to boast it by feeding.

Dosing nitrates on top of NO PHOSPHATES is potentially harmful to the photosynthetics in the tank (corals!).

So yes....get to dosing those phosphates. Feeding is not the correct answer.

 

[jtl]

I have SOME PO4 just not as much as I think I should have. .024P and 2.5N. That sounds like a very high ratio at 100:1 which brings up another question/topic. I have read and BRS suggests a ratio of about 10:1. It is some kind of modified Redfield Ratio, they have a video about it on their site. But I also read the article by Michael Paletta where some of the "masters" of this hobby are as high as 100:1. I guess it is like lighting and dosing and many things were it "just depends" . I am working toward better growth and color and I think I am making a little progress but it is slow going. Thank you for your valuable insight.

 

[grassy_noel]

Following up again. Another two weeks have passed...GHA seems to be coming back a little more slowly after each water change. I'm changing 20% every weekend now, pulling and brushing as much GHA off the rocks as I can and siphoning up any substrate that has algae on it. I'm probably down to about 50% of my original sand bed at this point.

I'm feeding a bit heavier now as my corals were starting to lose color. Alternating between Nyos gold pods and tiny Hikari marine pellets for my fish...two tiny feedings per day during which everything gets eaten. Coralline algae seems to be spreading a bit more now as well...finally got some spots forming on the wet side of my MP10. Nothing on the back wall at all, which is acrylic, so that still surprises me...

My nitrate is consistently around 2 ppm, but I still can't detect phosphate. I ordered the Hanna ULR checker, which will arrive later today. Up to now I've been using the low range checker and am always getting 0.00 ppm (turns out as much as 0.04 ppm can read zero on the low range checker and still be within the tolerances of the device, so not super helpful). Hopefully the lower range checker will register something.

Last note, basically all of my trochus, astrea, and nerite snails have croaked. They seem to get weak, stop moving for a few days, then finally fall off the rocks to be devoured by my herd of tiny hermit crabs. So far, by my count I've lost 4 trochus snails (80%), 3 astrea snails (100%), and 4 nerite snails (66%). Oddly, my cerith snails seem to be doing fine. My best guess is that the only available algae in the tank is now the long wispy green hairs and no little nubbins for the snails to eat, and they're starving??? Anyone had experience with this? All the snails were new to me in the last 3 months. I'm not adding any more snails until I have some filmy looking algae that they can eat.

 

[grassy_noel]

Photos below.

Lot's more coralline, a tailspot blenny that does seem to nibble at it, a fleet of snails, weekly pull-and-siphon sessions, weekly 20% water changes, and yet it's still here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I thought I was making progress and now under 10K lighting (just for the photos) I can see that I am still a long way from getting rid of this annoying stuff.

A couple things I've noticed:

It seems to grow best in areas of high flow. That seems counter-intuitive to me, but that's what I'm experiencing (second photo is directly in front of my MP10).

Two weeks ago I tried a ~80 hour blackout. Taped construction paper all over the tank even. Didn't do anything. It was there just waiting for me when I turned the lights back on.

Also, I can't keep lying. In a moment of weakness I also tried fluconazole. I dosed it and waited two weeks (per directions) before the first water change. By the end of the two weeks the tank was completely overgrown. Then I resumed my weekly water changes, so the concentration is getting diluted every week. By now (some 6 water changes later) there's only about 25% of the concentration left in the water. I was contemplating trying again, but this time adding the appropriate amount of fluconazole to my water change water as well, so the concentration does not drop. Some people have said doing that killed it after about 6 weeks.

Once it gets long enough I can pull it off, but the shorter stuff you see (~1/8" long) is too short to get a hold of with my fingers. I even tried tweezers, but it just slipped right through the metal. The darker green film stuff seems to be how it starts. The snails will eat that part, but they're not fast enough, and nobody seems to touch the longer hairs. Scrubbing with a toothbrush helps remove it, but I can't possibly catch all the little pieces and I know this is helping it re-seed elsewhere because every time I scrub it I end up with new patches on my sand bed, which I have to siphon out algae and sand together.

Of course, phosphates read zero (Hanna ULR checker). Nitrates hover around 1.5 ppm. I'm feeding a combination of calanus, mysis, or pellets 1-2 times a day, a tiny amount. Like 30-ish little calanus shrimp, or a 1/4 cube of mysis, or 30-ish micro pellets total in a day. Just two fish and the shrimp, had to move my smaller clown to another tank because the big one literally chased him out of the tank, twice. Once onto the carpet and once into the back chamber, both with the lid on.

Foundation elements are all in line: CA ~420 ppm, Alk ~8.0-8.5 dKh, Mag ~1,350-1,400 ppm. Tested my RO water, which reads 0 TDS. I mixed up a brand new batch of salt water and tested everything. ~400 ppm CA, ~8.0 dKH Alk, ~1,400 ppm Mg, 0 phosphates (Hanna ULR), and ~0.25 ppm nitrates (my Red Sea low range nitrate test kit has never read zero, ever).

A few questions:

1. Is this possibly something other than GHA? Did I just make a bad first assumption and it's actually something else that I could treat? Could it be some form of cyano that I could treat with Chemiclean? I know this is a long-shot, but I'm looking for a miracle here.

2. Should I try a phosphate remover like GFO, Rowaphos, or Lanthanum Chloride? I haven't done this yet (because my phosphates are already 0), but it does seem to be the first advice basically everywhere.

3. Should I try dosing phosphate (Seachem Fluorish Phosphorus)? This seems counter-intuitive, but I've read in a few places that "imbalanced" nutrients can lead to algae outbreaks (I thought usually cyano or diatoms), but I'd say my nutrients are pretty imbalanced. I have low nitrates and essentially zero phosphates. My guess is that dosing phosphate would cause the algae to explode, but maybe afterwards it would subside if nitrate and phosphate are better balanced (say 2 ppm nitrate and 0.05 ppm phosphate)? I'm grasping at straws here...this doesn't sound like it makes sense, but I swear I saw it in a youtube video by Amro_Azul (not sure if he's on here).