Help identify issue with Clownfish in QT

[blackstallion]

Those fish look pretty good to me. I can't remember, did I direct you to my article here on fish mucus? If not, here is an excerpt about feces:

Excess mucus in fish feces: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often
hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for
this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to
diagnose this issue effectively.
Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no
serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in
diet or diets high in fats.
Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces
with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to
be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.
Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of
these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral
antibiotic may be required.
Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they
are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in
fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.
Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently
cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent
treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food.
However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be
dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not
“drink” aquarium water.
Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in
dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of
mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well
researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.
Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as
one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure
for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not
do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas
already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW
magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it
as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no
benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct.
Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for
fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has
marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in
fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation
resolved.

Jay

Another behavior I've been noticing is yawning, although this has been present almost the full 3 weeks they've been in the sterile tank. If they had gill flukes, what would I have witnessed after 6 weeks? Although, once again, I've done some FW dips so that may have killed the flukes in their gills but then I put them back in the same tank so they got reinfected?

I've been told I may have Prazi resistant Flukes so I should treat with Fenbendazole by performing 12 dips 1 week apart, what's your opinion with this treatment?

 

[blackstallion]

I'm more concerned about the skin lesions, are they clearing up? I generally advise people to wait at least 14 days from the date of the last observable symptoms before moving fish into a DT....an personally, I always wait 30 days.

Does the clown have stringy feces all of the time, or do they look darker some times? What foods are you feeding it?

Jay

Would it be safe to do a 12 hour Fenbendazole bath, followed immediatly by a 90 minute Formalin bath and then transfer to sterile tank?

I'm seeing skin lesions back AND I've been witnessing yawing and the fish going to the surface for air, so I have to assume they have Praze resistant gill Flukes as originally diagnosed.

I've been observing and "hoping" these symptoms would go away, but they have not, so I need to act on both.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I won’t use fenbendazole as a bath, I’ve killed off whole tanks of fish even at 2 ppm. Turns out there are sensitive species, but nobody has a full list, so you have to sort of dose and find out! To date we know that it kills flashlight fish, darters and some catfish.
What dose would you use for the formalin? I prefer a higher dose for a shorter period: 150 ppm for 45 minutes with strong aeration. Some people go as high as 167 ppm for one hour.
Jay

 

[blackstallion]

I won’t use fenbendazole as a bath, I’ve killed off whole tanks of fish even at 2 ppm. Turns out there are sensitive species, but nobody has a full list, so you have to sort of dose and find out! To date we know that it kills flashlight fish, darters and some catfish.
What dose would you use for the formalin? I prefer a higher dose for a shorter period: 150 ppm for 45 minutes with strong aeration. Some people go as high as 167 ppm for one hour.
Jay

I'm sorry, I was thinking of RRR when I stated 90 minutes.

What I meant was 45 minutes at a Formaldehyde dose of 0.6ml/g (not sure what that equates to in ppm).

Some more pictures of now the 3rd Clown showing "something", but can't determine what. I'm almost thinking this is nothing and considering putting them in the DT since it's been over 6 weeks now and they're eating and otherwise healthy; the other 2 are not showing any lesions or spots on their skin. I would have thought that if they had any severe issues ie. Ich/Velvet/Brook/Uronema/Flukes/etc. they would have succomb already.

Is it possible what I'm seeing is just the symptons of bad water quality in the QT?

I can see HOW, now, many people have been turned off by this hobby and given up....I've done almost everything I can to get these fish healthy by QT'ing and observing for 6 weeks, and yet, I'm stuck in a lurch between putting them into the DT and possibly infecting my Yellow Tang VS keeping them in QT for another 30days+ with various treaments that may or may not work, and every day decreases their chance of survival in this environment.

I guess the question is, how likely is whatever they have (IF they have something) to potentially impact my Yellow Tang. He's the only one in the 200G DT now...no UV btw.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

0.6 ml formalin per gallon is around 150 ppm....so a pretty standard dose.

Yeah, I can't tell what's on the clowns, but there is something there. If it were my fish, I'd do a skin scrape (biopsy) and at least be able to rule out flukes or protozoans.

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

Something I haven't seen specifically addressed is whether a heater needs to be used during the 45min treatment with Formaldehyde?

I guess the question is, if the temperature is matching the environment they came from initially, but then over a 45 minute period starts going down, possibly by several degrees, will this be an issue?

I plan on performing the Formalin bath in a 1g fish bowl with airstone, but the only heater I have that will fit in there is the one that's currently in the sterile tank they'd be transferred to. Can the heater simply be rinsed off post Formaldehyde treatment and put right back into the sterile tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't worry about water temperature during a 45 minute dip, as long as the room temperature is 70+ degrees F., it won't be an issue. I do use a heater for 3 hour antibiotic dips.

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

I don't worry about water temperature during a 45 minute dip, as long as the room temperature is 70+ degrees F., it won't be an issue. I do use a heater for 3 hour antibiotic dips.

Jay

I've never used Formaldehyde. For a 0.6ml dose into the 1g fish bowl I'll be using, is it safe to do this in an indoor room with the windows open for ventilation? Or is that even required at this level of dilution? And are latex gloves and safety glasses adequate? Or once again, is this overkill assuming I'm extremely careful?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've never used Formaldehyde. For a 0.6ml dose into the 1g fish bowl I'll be using, is it safe to do this in an indoor room with the windows open for ventilation? Or is that even required at this level of dilution? And are latex gloves and safety glasses adequate? Or once again, is this overkill assuming I'm extremely careful?

I always use gloves and goggles when handling formalin. Opening the windows would be prudent, but I don't do that myself. Keep it away from kids!

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

I always use gloves and goggles when handling formalin. Opening the windows would be prudent, but I don't do that myself. Keep it away from kids!

Jay

Successfully performed a 55 minute bath, now in sterile QT. What is the recommended treatment going forward?