Help identifying multiple disease in different fish in my DT

schafon

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Hi everyone!
I have a 120G display tank that I didn't quite follow QT procedure with.
current livestock:
Domino Damsel, yellowtail damsel, Percula clownfish, diamond goby, firefish, 3 cleaner shrimps, 1 red blood shrimp, royal grama, sailfin tang, and I probably forget few more.
I recently (2 weeks) purchased 2 blue hippos that were the start of this problem.
This was the first time I found hippos that don't have any signs of disease and had a great price - so I bought them.
After few days in the tank they started showing some white (salt) dots on them(probably ick), I decided to wait it out and turned on my UV light.
Few days after they did look better but from then I think it's been going downhill.
This morning I've noticed my clownfish have what seems to be Brooklynella(see videos) and some(if not all) of the fish show some kind of white spots(see pictures).

Some information about the tank:
it's been up for 45 days now.
it's 120G with sump, filtration is a filter pad and sock-like material(cut to size).
Bio Balls dripping, Chaeto, and sponge filter.
15W UV light on the return pump.
Hang-on skimmer.
I do a weekly water change of 10%.

Water Parameters:
Ammonia - undetectable
Salinity 1.025-1.026
Phospate is high(0.4-0.6), most probably since I added uncured dry rock to the tank when I've started it.
Calcium is around 440-450.
Alkalinity is 8.5.
PH 7.9
Temp 77-78
My LFS water test is not working right now so I can't check the other parameters.
Corals doing great!

Are any invertebrates affected? - No
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? - No
Are the affected fish still feeding? - Everyones eating except sail fin(starting this morning)

Please help me determine the best course of action for my situation, I have a running 32 Bio Cube tank with damsel and marron that is running for 3 years( bought it used) and another 15G that I've bought for QT but using RN for rock curing.

Thanks!!
Pictures of my live stock:



IMG_2325.jpg
IMG_2332.jpg IMG_2337.jpg IMG_2338.jpg IMG_2339.jpg IMG_2349.jpg IMG_2350.jpg IMG_2340.jpg
If you can't see the video right-click and download video
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Hi everyone!
I have a 120G display tank that I didn't quite follow QT procedure with.
current livestock:
Domino Damsel, yellowtail damsel, Percula clownfish, diamond goby, firefish, 3 cleaner shrimps, 1 red blood shrimp, royal grama, sailfin tang, and I probably forget few more.
I recently (2 weeks) purchased 2 blue hippos that were the start of this problem.
This was the first time I found hippos that don't have any signs of disease and had a great price - so I bought them.
After few days in the tank they started showing some white (salt) dots on them(probably ick), I decided to wait it out and turned on my UV light.
Few days after they did look better but from then I think it's been going downhill.
This morning I've noticed my clownfish have what seems to be Brooklynella(see videos) and some(if not all) of the fish show some kind of white spots(see pictures).

Some information about the tank:
it's been up for 45 days now.
it's 120G with sump, filtration is a filter pad and sock-like material(cut to size).
Bio Balls dripping, Chaeto, and sponge filter.
15W UV light on the return pump.
Hang-on skimmer.
I do a weekly water change of 10%.

Water Parameters:
Ammonia - undetectable
Salinity 1.025-1.026
Phospate is high(0.4-0.6), most probably since I added uncured dry rock to the tank when I've started it.
Calcium is around 440-450.
Alkalinity is 8.5.
PH 7.9
Temp 77-78
My LFS water test is not working right now so I can't check the other parameters.
Corals doing great!

Are any invertebrates affected? - No
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? - No
Are the affected fish still feeding? - Everyones eating except sail fin(starting this morning)

Please help me determine the best course of action for my situation, I have a running 32 Bio Cube tank with damsel and marron that is running for 3 years( bought it used) and another 15G that I've bought for QT but using RN for rock curing.

Thanks!!
Pictures of my live stock:



IMG_2325.jpg
IMG_2332.jpg IMG_2337.jpg IMG_2338.jpg IMG_2339.jpg IMG_2349.jpg IMG_2350.jpg IMG_2340.jpg
If you can't see the video right-click and download video
I replied to the other post. This post had videos I didn’t see before - the big clownfish is breathing hard, it could have velvet, not ich, or it could have both. In that case, hyposalinity won’t work, your only option would be copper in a treatment tank ASAP.
Jay
 
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schafon

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Hi Jay, thanks for your reply. I've just noticed I've posted this twice.
I will go get myself some copper but I'm not sure how to start the treatment tank.
My 15G has few live rocks in it, I need to clean it since it had few dry rocks in it as well.
Should I use water from the display tank to fill it up or make new water?

This is the tank I want to put the fish in:

Please help me understand what I should do, I'm going to get some copper from my LPS.

Thanks!
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, thanks for your reply. I've just noticed I've posted this twice.
I will go get myself some copper but I'm not sure how to start the treatment tank.
My 15G has few live rocks in it, I need to clean it since it had few dry rocks in it as well.
Should I use water from the display tank to fill it up or make new water?

This is the tank I want to put the fish in:

Please help me understand what I should do, I'm going to get some copper from my LPS.

Thanks!
Your main issue is going to be managing the ammonia in the new tank, you can’t use carbonate based live rock as that will absorb some of the copper. Try not to use ammonia removing chemicals as there is some worry that they can make copper more toxic. I would ask your dealer what “bacteria in a bottle” products they have that works well.
Jay
 
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schafon

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I went to the LFS and bought copper and dr tims one and only.
I will remove the carbon filter from the small tank and move the rocks to my 32G.
There is no chance I will be able to catch all of the fish today, but the most important fish right now is the clown.
I understand that I need to raise the copper level slowly, so my question is, will I be able to add other fish from the DT to the quarantine? or it will be too much for them?
 
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schafon

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I set up the hospital tank, added freshly mixed saltwater, I hope the filtration I had on this tank had some bacteria in it. To be safe added the DR tims one and only.
I managed to catch the clowns and I gave the sick female a nice freshwater(RO/DI) dip for 4 minutes, she took it like a champ and she looks much better now! Adding a video.
Unfourtenetly it wasent the same case for the sailfin that refused eating since 2 days ago, after I caught him last night he was already weak, I dipped him too last night and this morning he was already dead.
@Jay Hemdal what does the fact that freshwater dip worked so well tells us? Should I start the dosing of the cupramine even when I didn't manage to catch the other fish yet?
Thanks!
 

Jay Hemdal

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I went to the LFS and bought copper and dr tims one and only.
I will remove the carbon filter from the small tank and move the rocks to my 32G.
There is no chance I will be able to catch all of the fish today, but the most important fish right now is the clown.
I understand that I need to raise the copper level slowly, so my question is, will I be able to add other fish from the DT to the quarantine? or it will be too much for them?
What copper product did you buy? For the amine bound products; Cupramine, Coppersafe and Copper Power it is a HUGE mistake to ramp the copper up slowly on fish that have an active disease! It can take 72 hours for a full copper dose to start to work, if you take 48 hours or more getting to full copper, the fish may not live that long. The only thing you need to do is add the copper in two half doses, testing in between and after to ensure you have a proper dose. I do this in one day- add 1/2 dose, let it mix for an hour or two, test, add the remaining partial dose, let it mix then test again to confirm.
Jay
 
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schafon

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What copper product did you buy? For the amine bound products; Cupramine, Coppersafe and Copper Power it is a HUGE mistake to ramp the copper up slowly on fish that have an active disease! It can take 72 hours for a full copper dose to start to work, if you take 48 hours or more getting to full copper, the fish may not live that long. The only thing you need to do is add the copper in two half doses, testing in between and after to ensure you have a proper dose. I do this in one day- add 1/2 dose, let it mix for an hour or two, test, add the remaining partial dose, let it mix then test again to confirm.
Jay
Thanks Jay! it's amazing that you help reef keepers so much! I really appreciate it!
Have you seen my latest comment? I bought the cupramine but didn't dose it yet, my clown looks normal after a freshwater dip, should I dose it anyway? I still didn't catch the other fish so it's just 3/8 in the quarentine.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks Jay! it's amazing that you help reef keepers so much! I really appreciate it!
Have you seen my latest comment? I bought the cupramine but didn't dose it yet, my clown looks normal after a freshwater dip, should I dose it anyway? I still didn't catch the other fish so it's just 3/8 in the quarentine.
I would ignore the stringy feces on the clown for now - that is often nothing of any importance, and you need to work on the ich issue first.

The clown does look a lot cleaner after the FW dip. However, FW dips are never 100% effective, and the disease often returns. Ich is funny also in that in the beginning, the ich trophonts are all on the same cycle and they tend to all drop off the fish at the same time, and then their offspring return in greater numbers. You might be in the middle of a false lull in parasite activity.

I think you need to prepare to dose all of the fish in a treatment tank with copper...maybe wait to see if the spots return, but be ready if they do.

Jay
 
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schafon

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Thanks Jay,
A question, since we know freshwater dip removes the ick from the fish, if I dip all of the fish before moving to the quarantine tank, doesn't it solves the problem?
I'm having a hard time catching the fish from the aquarium, but tomorrow is WC Saturday and I will probably take out all of the rocks and catch all of the fish. My hippos really starting to look bad.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks Jay,
A question, since we know freshwater dip removes the ick from the fish, if I dip all of the fish before moving to the quarantine tank, doesn't it solves the problem?
I'm having a hard time catching the fish from the aquarium, but tomorrow is WC Saturday and I will probably take out all of the rocks and catch all of the fish. My hippos really starting to look bad.
Actually FW dips don’t really remove the deep seated ich trophonts. Dips are better at removing flukes. Personally, I only use dips as a diagnostic tool, looking at the settle dip water with a microscope to look for parasites.


Moving fish from tank to tank even without a dip can work to control ich, you basically outrun the disease, moving the fish leaving the resting tomont stage behind. It is called tan transfer method or TTM. You can search for the method here. I don’t use it myself as it doesn’t work for other disease issues.
Jay
 
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schafon

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Ok quick update.
Yesterday during water change we moved all of the rocks and got all the fish out to quarantine.
I’m feeling bad to put so many fish in 15 gallons but this is my only option.
I did another freshwater dip on the clown cause she was fast breathing again. This time I did see things that came out of it! So I guess it’s flukes.
I want to dip all of the other fish today and start dosing the copper. My question is, does the copper help with the flukes?
Should I dip all of the fish or it’s unnecessary stress now?
Thanks!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Ok quick update.
Yesterday during water change we moved all of the rocks and got all the fish out to quarantine.
I’m feeling bad to put so many fish in 15 gallons but this is my only option.
I did another freshwater dip on the clown cause she was fast breathing again. This time I did see things that came out of it! So I guess it’s flukes.
I want to dip all of the other fish today and start dosing the copper. My question is, does the copper help with the flukes?
Should I dip all of the fish or it’s unnecessary stress now?
Thanks!
No, copper won’t work on flukes. FW dip and then praziquantel 2x a week apart is best for flukes.
Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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So hold off on the copper? Treat the flukes first?
I'm still concerned - the Wednesday photo of the clown clearly shows a protozoan infection, not flukes. Protozoans kill fish faster than flukes. Copper is the best treatment for that. I was only saying that copper won't work on flukes.

How many fish and what sizes are in the 15 gallon?

Jay
 
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schafon

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The big clown, small clown, blue damsel, domino damsel, diamond goby, 2 blue hippos, possum wrasse and one that looks like royal grama but I’m not sure it’s royal grama.
I actually went ahead and bought a 30G tank now but I’m not sure if it will cycle fast enough, putting the sponge filter from the more established tank will be enough?
 
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schafon

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I’ve put the clay thing with some sant in it for the goby, but he still didn’t find it.
 

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