Help! Installed new 160 gallon tank and already have 3 dead fish :(
- Thread starter rishic78
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Since you have already had deaths among other species, I'm going to guess velvet rather than brook. Without more evidence I can't be sure. If the dead fish,or other fish in the tank are also breathing heavily, the case for velvet would be strengthened.Yeah, it was all from the same LFS. The fish came from 3 different tanks there (all 7 cardinal fish were from one tank, each clownfish pair from their own tanks).
I do have inverts -- 5 turbo snails, 5 red leg hermit grabs, and 2 cleaner shrimp.
The thing I noticed with all 3 fish is that they would sit in a corner and stay low to the bottom of the sandbed and not really eat. And then 2 days later they would be gone from the tank. The snails got to the two cardinal fish before I could pull them out. I saw the shrimp going after the clownfish and pulled that one out myself. I have not seen any slime on them or dots.
Here is a video showing the full tank:
New video by Rishi Chandra
photos.app.goo.gl
I will pulling out the fish to quarantine them but trying to figure out how to diagnose the right medication for them. Or is there a default I should use if I don't know what kind of disease it is?
So Copper Power or Copper Safe dosed to 2.50 ppm. You will need an accurate test kit. Dose 50% ASAP and then 50% in 6 - 12 hours since the fish appears to have had the infection for some time already.
there is no possible way that reef isn't cycled and able to carry fish. per my work threads, not per Dr. Tim's sales mode. those two sources are never going to agree.
in my cycling threads we'd move beyond cycling 100% here due to # of days underwater with the cycling method selected and reported, at no time would nitrite ever be requested or factored in my threads. that does not mean other cycle umps will agree, it only means in my threads the perfect outcomes for cycle will continue independently to the other sources.
in my cycling threads we'd move beyond cycling 100% here due to # of days underwater with the cycling method selected and reported, at no time would nitrite ever be requested or factored in my threads. that does not mean other cycle umps will agree, it only means in my threads the perfect outcomes for cycle will continue independently to the other sources.
for example if you add a lysmata shrimp, immune to fish disease, it won't die / cycled reef will handle him and corals and feed without crashing. basing the life carry off non fish life prone to disease will open a new perspective.
SebM
Community Member
Stupid question, did you check with your LFS what their salinity levels are?
Ours has one bank of tanks at 1.012 (and treats with copper). No one told me when I picked 6 chromis from one of those tanks so I did the normal acclimatisation. They all died within the space of 10 days. Same symptoms as yours.
They apologised and I picked 4 pyjama cardinals from a “normal” tank as a free replacement.
The chromis are the only fish I’ve lost since I’ve had the tank in November 2021 (aside from a cleaner wrasse which did well for 5 months but clearly is not a fish to be kept in a tank).
I also used Dr Tim’s. Here’s the tank in its first week during cycling and now
Don’t get discouraged! It’s an amazing hobby.
Ours has one bank of tanks at 1.012 (and treats with copper). No one told me when I picked 6 chromis from one of those tanks so I did the normal acclimatisation. They all died within the space of 10 days. Same symptoms as yours.
They apologised and I picked 4 pyjama cardinals from a “normal” tank as a free replacement.
The chromis are the only fish I’ve lost since I’ve had the tank in November 2021 (aside from a cleaner wrasse which did well for 5 months but clearly is not a fish to be kept in a tank).
I also used Dr Tim’s. Here’s the tank in its first week during cycling and now
Don’t get discouraged! It’s an amazing hobby.
knockout
Active Member
I am surprised nobody is talking about aggression being the possible cause here.
I agree to add 11 fish is too much too soon, but without any signs of infection, the cause could just be the type of fish...
Clownfish are particularly aggressive, add 2 and you will have a skirmish until one becomes dominant, add 4 and then you have a problem, probably would have been better off adding 11 clowns (this is not a recommendation)
then there are the beautiful Bangaii cardinals, they look so peaceful - they are not!
they are just as aggressive to each other as much as clownfish are, these fish will kill each other until there is a mated pair established, then they will mate and after that usually only one of the parents survives, (I think the male) will guard the eggs/offsprings against the dangers of the reef (clownfish-in your scenario), this fish will protect until it dies of starvation, very few LFS can be trusted with information, they need to sell product aka fish
EDIT: I would do nothing at this point, a) you don't have a QT system, b) bringing the fish back is probably not an option
I agree to add 11 fish is too much too soon, but without any signs of infection, the cause could just be the type of fish...
Clownfish are particularly aggressive, add 2 and you will have a skirmish until one becomes dominant, add 4 and then you have a problem, probably would have been better off adding 11 clowns (this is not a recommendation)
then there are the beautiful Bangaii cardinals, they look so peaceful - they are not!
they are just as aggressive to each other as much as clownfish are, these fish will kill each other until there is a mated pair established, then they will mate and after that usually only one of the parents survives, (I think the male) will guard the eggs/offsprings against the dangers of the reef (clownfish-in your scenario), this fish will protect until it dies of starvation, very few LFS can be trusted with information, they need to sell product aka fish
EDIT: I would do nothing at this point, a) you don't have a QT system, b) bringing the fish back is probably not an option
anthonygf
Valuable Member
Some of you talk about the 11 fish being too much to add at once. They are so small. Add them all up and would equal maybe one 5 inch fish, adding 11 small fish would be like getting one 6 inch fish to start in that size tank. Wouldn't you agree?
SaltEpidemic
Community Member
Yeah I'm new to the hobby, but at 10 days using dr tims I was just starting to read nitrites. It wasn't till like the 17th day nitrites went fully blue. Sorry for the fish loss mate, hope things get better
Thank You. I'll read through it when time permits.Lots of threads on this topic, here is a fairly comprehensive one
Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact
Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...www.reef2reef.com
quick summary of that bottle bac thread
-when you buy bottle bac for cycling, it works out of the bottle vs taking days and days of wait to work. What takes days, ten on average we can see, is *implanting* of dosed bacteria onto surfaces
this means a full water change can’t strip your cycle off after a few days wait, but you still had a functioning suspension cycle when you added the bottle
this is why every searchable thread for a fish-in cycle, which is bottle bac + fish on day one, shows fish alive and acting normally. They’re not burned, this is immediately what old cycling rules get wrong.
-some bottles are dead, killed by harsh holding conditions but not many. So few % in fact we don’t consider that risk in my cycling threads, but they’re there.
-fritz and biospira were fastest-adhering strains
at day ten they are pretty much all the same ability
-Dr. Tims is likely #1 used strain, it’s marketing and word of mouth referral rate is outstanding. It’s great bacteria, I like it.
-we get to see rare live info from Dr. Tim himself, see page 5 onward for a while. Look at the part where we discuss cycling bac coming out of tap water / it’s not sterile at all. We thought tap water was sterile, it’s not, it provides cycling bac though not concentrated
bottle bac works, the real risk in cycling is fish disease vectoring, not ammonia control. I added that last part he he
-when you buy bottle bac for cycling, it works out of the bottle vs taking days and days of wait to work. What takes days, ten on average we can see, is *implanting* of dosed bacteria onto surfaces
this means a full water change can’t strip your cycle off after a few days wait, but you still had a functioning suspension cycle when you added the bottle
this is why every searchable thread for a fish-in cycle, which is bottle bac + fish on day one, shows fish alive and acting normally. They’re not burned, this is immediately what old cycling rules get wrong.
-some bottles are dead, killed by harsh holding conditions but not many. So few % in fact we don’t consider that risk in my cycling threads, but they’re there.
-fritz and biospira were fastest-adhering strains
at day ten they are pretty much all the same ability
-Dr. Tims is likely #1 used strain, it’s marketing and word of mouth referral rate is outstanding. It’s great bacteria, I like it.
-we get to see rare live info from Dr. Tim himself, see page 5 onward for a while. Look at the part where we discuss cycling bac coming out of tap water / it’s not sterile at all. We thought tap water was sterile, it’s not, it provides cycling bac though not concentrated
bottle bac works, the real risk in cycling is fish disease vectoring, not ammonia control. I added that last part he he
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vtecintegra
Valuable Member
Not quarantining is like running stop signs on purpose. Might get away with it for a while, but when it goes wrong it'll generally be catastrophic. I assume every fish purchase has disease and quarantine accordingly.
So far I've only seen one person touch on an important part...
You introduced 11 fish into the thunderdome.
3, 5, 7, 21, 107 Cardinals will eventually become two cardinals, it's easy math, the dominant pair will just keep subtracting until they're the only two.
Clowns sometimes not so much... If you have habitat and room for them to hide, juveniles will get along great, until they mature, then two men enter, one man leave.
Barring actual disease, which now you should prepare to go fallow as a precaution, and set up a quarantine and observation tank as a general rule, this is the way of the ocean.
You introduced 11 fish into the thunderdome.
3, 5, 7, 21, 107 Cardinals will eventually become two cardinals, it's easy math, the dominant pair will just keep subtracting until they're the only two.
Clowns sometimes not so much... If you have habitat and room for them to hide, juveniles will get along great, until they mature, then two men enter, one man leave.
Barring actual disease, which now you should prepare to go fallow as a precaution, and set up a quarantine and observation tank as a general rule, this is the way of the ocean.
rishic78
New Member
One last piece of information. My clownfish did show a symptom of having long white poops prior to it getting sick. I had no idea that was an issue until reading about it on the forums. Just curious if that is consistent with marine velvet or not and whether I also need to treat for something else with the remaining fish
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