Help! Lost all live stock in 12 hour span!

[Brandon1014]

I have a fairly new reef aquarium. (About 3 months) I adopted the tank that was established for 6 years. There was no live stock when I got it so even though it was already established I cycled it when I moved it just to be safe and introduced fish and coral slowly afterwards.

As of yesterday, I had two clowns, a lawnmower blenny, and a coral beauty. All were great. No signs of anything. Swimming, eating, everything. All was normal.

Even this morning, everyone was accounted for. But when I got home, I had lost a clown and the coral beauty. I just watched the second clown die an hour ago. Before it died I definitely noticed some distress. It was hiding under a rock the entire time. My wife said it had been there all day. Looked like it was breathing heavily. But no physical signs on its body. Eventually it started swimming around and looked as if it were getting better, but that quickly declined until it had its final breath moments later.

As of now the lawnmower blenny is alive. However he is acting very strange. It actually seems much more active and even much less skittish when I get near the tank. It's even hanging out along the glass, towards the surface, and near the powerhead. Very unlike him, which he's usually hiding in the rocks.

Although this is a new tank, I do have knowledge from a fowlr tank I ran for a couple years when I was younger. I have never heard of anything like this happening out of nowhere so quickly.

My water parameters are perfect. PH 8.3-8.4, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 0. Phosphate 0. Calcium and carbonate hardness all good too.

I am baffled. I know it has to be some sort of infection or disease, but there were absolutely no signs. The only other thing is when the second clown died, it shredded some skin. Or atleast what looked like skin. But that only happened immediately after it's death.

I know I babbled so if you finished reading thank you and please help with any insight you might have!

 

[LBReefer]

When did you add the last fish? Did you quarantine?

 

[LBReefer]

Is the blenny swimming into the power head? Any signs of white on the fins?

 

[Brandon1014]

The last fish was the coral beauty I added about a week ago. Which I'm assuming was the culprit since I did not quarantine. I never have in the past and never had any issues. But I'm actually setting one up as we speak and will be quarantining from now on. Lesson learned.

I've come to the acceptance that whatever this is has taken over my tank, but after looking things up I'm just concerned about what I need to do before adding new fish. So those don't get infected with what's in there now too.

The blenny is not swimming into the powerhead. Just sitting on the attachment behind it. And no signs of white, it seems like his color is a little lighter through out it's whole body though. However, when the clown started becoming more active he started swimming against the current. Not directly in front of the powerhead, but definitely in the flow from it.

 

[Coralfuture]

In my past the only thing to totally take a tank out like that with good parameters has been cooking them when my AC was broken and the room it was in got too hot. Any chance of too hot or cold in the system? Also most sickness takes some good time to totally die off but that time varies based on what illness it was/is.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Gram negative bacterial infections or velvet are typically the cause of fast killers in the hobby from a disease perspective. If your CB had velvet when it was introduced a week prior, it is certainly the right timetable unfortunately.

I wouldn't rule out a toxin in this case though since you didn't see any behavioral signs or physical signs linked to velvet. Try picking up a poly pad and running it. If it changes color, it will typically identify the toxin.

When you filled the tank, did you use RODI water? Tap water?

 

[Mike Ashton]

Ammonia spike probably the culprit this will burn fishes gills and starve water of oxygen resulting in fishes suffocation have you disturbed the sand bed or disturbed any biological filtration recently or adding fish increasing the bioload before it has had time to build up enough to cope after the move

 

[HotRocks]

As mentioned above it could be several things. Did you test for ammonia?

I am suspect of velvet here. A blenny swimming near powerhead is a sign of velvet. Reclusive behavior is also another symptom of velvet. The fact that none of the fish were QT'd is another reason that disease is fully possible. Velvet in some cases will be present without the visual symptoms like white spots covering the fish.

Your safest route from here forward is allowing the tank to go fallow for 76 days. Then setup a QT, for any new additions.

 

[Brandon1014]

Yeah I read up on velvet and that's the conclusion I keep coming to. It's just weird that I am not seeing any physical signs of it. I will definitely try a poly pad to rule out or identify toxins next. And yes I have used RODI since the beginning.

I'm sure it was not an ammonia spike. I've been testing it everyday since I added the CB. The only sandbed disturbances have been with the initial setup 3 months ago which I used new love sand for. And your regular siphoning with water changes.

Yeah I read about the 76 days period. I guess if I can't pinpoint anythibg else and rule out velvet that will probably be the safest route to go.

What about the corals and inverts? Would they be effected by velvet? Could my palythoas or toadstool have released a toxin? I know those two specifically can but with the palys isn't it usually just sever distress? And the toadstool as an attack towards other corals? I also have a few candycanes and a xenia colony. All with adequate room between them and they're all thriving.

 

[HotRocks]

There have been several cases where velvet is a "Silent Killer" Some fish display behavioral symptoms as yours have from your description above, but never show the visual symptoms.

Velvet will not harm your corals, but can encyst upon them or the plugs/rock they are attached to in the reproductive stages. This is why it is recommended to allow the proper fallow period to make sure that the life cycle is broken and the parasites will die off completely without a fish to host and repeat the cycle. The final free swimming stage (Dinospores) is what attaches to the fish and feeds, then falls off the fish to begin reproduction and rapid multiplication.

Velvet fallow period is 6 weeks. If I were you, and you already plan to go fallow for 6 weeks, you might as well go the full 76 days to make sure you have a "Clean" disease free tank before re-introducing fish.
Also all corals and inverts are good to remain in the tank for fallow period.

 

[4FordFamily]

I couldn’t agree more due to the prevalence of velvet right now, the lack of quarantine, the quickness with which it killed, and the behavioral symptoms I believe you’re dealing with velvet. @HotRocks has given phenomenal advice.

 

[Brandon1014]

Thank you all the the input. For some really good advice here. I'll definitely go forward with the fallow period. I checked on the blenny this morning and he's not looking good. Don't expect him to last the work day.

I guess if a velvet outbreak were to happen this is actually the best timing. I decided to upgrade to a bigger tank and just bought that Sunday. Was a little nervous on the transfer with live stock but I guess that process just got a little easier.

Speaking of which, would it be a good idea to start with all new water in the new tank or would it even make a difference with this issue?

 

[HotRocks]

Thank you all the the input. For some really good advice here. I'll definitely go forward with the fallow period. I checked on the blenny this morning and he's not looking good. Don't expect him to last the work day.

I guess if a velvet outbreak were to happen this is actually the best timing. I decided to upgrade to a bigger tank and just bought that Sunday. Was a little nervous on the transfer with live stock but I guess that process just got a little easier.

Speaking of which, would it be a good idea to start with all new water in the new tank or would it even make a difference with this issue?

As long as it is fishless, you can transfer all the water. Wont make a difference. Unless there was some sort of toxin. If it were a toxin though, your corals would most likely be suffering from it as well.

 

[JBKReef]

I recently had a velvet outbreak that took down all inhabitants from introduction, to 100% death in 10 days. Thankfully this was in a QT tank and not my DT. By the time I recognized on Day 8 there was an issue I could not turn things around before they all passed. Best of luck.

 

[Brandon1014]

Yeah I'll go that route then.

So going off of JBKReef's reply, I have been reading up on the quarantine process and found some debates in the proper way to go about it when it comes to treating. Such as treating everything for everything that's goes into the QT following a specific schedule or only treating for specific ailments only when signs of illness are visible. Any insight on this?

 

[HotRocks]

Yeah I'll go that route then.

So going off of JBKReef's reply, I have been reading up on the quarantine process and found some debates in the proper way to go about it when it comes to treating. Such as treating everything for everything that's goes into the QT following a specific schedule or only treating for specific ailments only when signs of illness are visible. Any insight on this?

This depends on the amount of time you are able to spend observing fish.

I personally only have about 20 minutes a day to spend in my QT room (I am in construction, so this time of year I am not home much). Not enough time to observe properly for hidden velvet symptoms, flukes etc IMO. So I chose to treat prophylactically for "most" disease/Parasites. The other thing is, every online order of fish I have received has one of or a combination of Flukes/ich/Velvet. This is solely up to you and there is not a right or a wrong way.

My regiment usually in the following order (I begin after fish are settled and eating well for at least three days, unless I see signs of velvet)
Copper for 30 days (Covers Ich/Velvet) I use Chelated copper - Copper Power (Using a 5-7 day ramp up period to reach the therapeutic level
API General Cure 2 Doses (Covers Flukes/Brook/Black ich) Can be combined with copper if necessary but not recommended unless "have to"
Feed Metro/Focus mixed into frozen food (Covers Internal Parasites/Worms)
Observe for 14 days med free to make sure everyone is "Clean"

I keep Methylene Blue on hand for "rough arrivals" I had to give an Achilles tang a bath in MB on my last shipment he was in a bag that was way too small and I suspected ammonia issues (He is great now).
I do also keep Ruby Reef Rally on hand for an antiseptic bath if need be.
Several antibiotics on hand as well JIC. Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Furan-2. I only use if necessary.

This is all R2R grown, @4FordFamily helped me get going, and through research and learning and much advice from @Humblefish this is what I do today. Again you can Do whatever works best for you and your schedule, and also sometimes my plan above may have to be adapted depending on what I am dealing with.

 

[4FordFamily]

This depends on the amount of time you are able to spend observing fish.

I personally only have about 20 minutes a day to spend in my QT room (I am in construction, so this time of year I am not home much). Not enough time to observe properly for hidden velvet symptoms, flukes etc IMO. So I chose to treat prophylactically for "most" disease/Parasites. The other thing is, every online order of fish I have received has one of or a combination of Flukes/ich/Velvet. This is solely up to you and there is not a right or a wrong way.

My regiment usually in the following order (I begin after fish are settled and eating well for at least three days, unless I see signs of velvet)
Copper for 30 days (Covers Ich/Velvet) I use Chelated copper - Copper Power (Using a 5-7 day ramp up period to reach the therapeutic level
API General Cure 2 Doses (Covers Flukes/Brook/Black ich) Can be combined with copper if necessary but not recommended unless "have to"
Feed Metro/Focus mixed into frozen food (Covers Internal Parasites/Worms)
Observe for 14 days med free to make sure everyone is "Clean"

I keep Methylene Blue on hand for "rough arrivals" I had to give an Achilles tang a bath in MB on my last shipment he was in a bag that was way too small and I suspected ammonia issues (He is great now).
I do also keep Ruby Reef Rally on hand for an antiseptic bath if need be.
Several antibiotics on hand as well JIC. Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Furan-2. I only use if necessary.

This is all R2R grown, @4FordFamily helped me get going, and through research and learning and much advice from @Humblefish this is what I do today. Again you can Do whatever works best for you and your schedule, and also sometimes my plan above may have to be adapted depending on what I am dealing with.

For the casual reader -- I might add that observation likely will not work for many fish that can go months without symptoms of velvet due to characteristics of the species (thick slime coats, sleeping below the sand and/or in mucous cocoons, having a protective coating, etc). Wrasse are a great example of a fish that will infect an entire tank if you solely observe them. Mandarin dragonet, some gobies, occasionally foxface, etc. are other examples.

 

[HotRocks]

For the casual reader -- I might add that observation likely will not work for many fish that can go months without symptoms of velvet due to characteristics of the species (thick slime coats, sleeping below the sand and/or in mucous cocoons, having a protective coating, etc). Wrasse are a great example of a fish that will infect an entire tank if you solely observe them. Mandarin dragonet, some gobies, occasionally foxface, etc. are other examples.

Agree 100%. I should have also said even if I was home much more I would still treat following the same process due to this^^^

And the fact that I have way too much time and money invested to let one fish nuke my entire tank due to a missed symptom.

Velvet is just too common today to let it eek it's way in!

 

[HB AL]

You said no visible signs of disease if so that leads to something toxic in the water, they dont just die that quick for no reason.

 

[Brew12]

Yeah I'll go that route then.

So going off of JBKReef's reply, I have been reading up on the quarantine process and found some debates in the proper way to go about it when it comes to treating. Such as treating everything for everything that's goes into the QT following a specific schedule or only treating for specific ailments only when signs of illness are visible. Any insight on this?

I'm not a big fan of waiting to look for symptoms.

How many visual symptoms did you notice with the fish in your system before it was too late to save them?

It may not happen much different in a QT setup. I have 3 main goals when receiving fish. Acclimate quickly, get them feeding, and start getting copper or CP levels up. I feel that if you can start getting copper or CP in your QT within 4 days of receiving the fish you have an excellent chance for success.