Help! Marine velvet? My angel is sick, and I don't know how to help him.

[tammieh]

My angel started a couple of days ago looking a bit off. He's still eating like a pig and comes over to me like normal, but is now hanging up at the top 1/3 of the tank. The other fish (lavender tang, purple tang, orange shoulder tang, clownfish, gobie, banana eel, and long nosed hawkfish) are looking ok and acting normal. We've had everyone for several years now with the angel being the most recent addition over a year ago.

Back in August, we went on vacation for 4 weeks. Our fish sitter isn't the most knowledgeable. During that time, we lost all of our anemones, but no fish and everyone seemed ok when we got back. He didn't report any issues during our time away.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: FOWLR
Aquarium water volume: 300
Filtration type: sump, socks, skimmer, Apex with water change of 5 gallons a day
Lighting: LED
How long has the aquarium been established? 2 years

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Hanna instruments testing
Temperature. 77.7F
pH: 8.6
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025
Ammonia
Nitrite 27 ppb
Nitrate 17.0 ppm
Phosphate 2.5
Copper not in use
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4): 60
Are the affected fish still feeding? Eating like a pig
What remedies have you tried so far? None yet

 

[blaxsun]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

My angel started a couple of days ago looking a bit off. He's still eating like a pig and comes over to me like normal, but is now hanging up at the top 1/3 of the tank. The other fish (lavender tang, purple tang, orange shoulder tang, clownfish, gobie, banana eel, and long nosed hawkfish) are looking ok and acting normal. We've had everyone for several years now with the angel being the most recent addition over a year ago.

Back in August, we went on vacation for 4 weeks. Our fish sitter isn't the most knowledgeable. During that time, we lost all of our anemones, but no fish and everyone seemed ok when we got back. He didn't report any issues during our time away.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: FOWLR
Aquarium water volume: 300
Filtration type: sump, socks, skimmer, Apex with water change of 5 gallons a day
Lighting: LED
How long has the aquarium been established? 2 years

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Hanna instruments testing
Temperature. 77.7F
pH: 8.6
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025
Ammonia
Nitrite 27 ppb
Nitrate 17.0 ppm
Phosphate 2.5
Copper not in use
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4): 60
Are the affected fish still feeding? Eating like a pig
What remedies have you tried so far? None yet

Its hard for me to tell if these are stress spots or Ich- I dont believe velvet
is fish eating ?
How is fish breathing . . Normal or labored?

Any unusual behavior such as swimming in front of power heads or at surface, heavy mucus on body or a dusty looking sheen to the body ?

A second set of eyes is also requested @Jay Hemdal

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Do you have inverts?
Do you have a tank you can pull the affected fish into?

I'm interested to hear from others, but the white speckling looks to prominent to be velvet, and I've never heard of velvet lying dormant in a tank for a year from the last addition.

 

[tammieh]

Its hard for me to tell if these are stress spots or Ich- I dont believe velvet
is fish eating ?
How is fish breathing . . Normal or labored?

Any unusual behavior such as swimming in front of power heads or at surface, heavy mucus on body or a dusty looking sheen to the body ?

A second set of eyes is also requested @Jay Hemdal

Breathing about 60/min. Started going to the upper 1/3 of tank. Seems to be in the powerhead area this evening. I added 2 air stones. No mucus. He's white but not rusty or odd colored. The spots are flat and like a lack of pigment, not like grains of salt or sand.

 

[tammieh]

Do you have inverts?
Do you have a tank you can pull the affected fish into?

I'm interested to hear from others, but the white speckling looks to prominent to be velvet, and I've never heard of velvet lying dormant in a tank for a year from the last addition.

I do have some inverts. Cleaner shrimp, sails, crabs, starfish, and one coco worm. Nothing new in the tank for over a year.

I do have a quarantine tank system, just worried about the stress of getting him out and into that tank. I thought it was just stress at first (we had a bad thunderstorm the night before we saw the changes but no loss of power or anything), so didn't want to put him through the additional stress of catching him if it was just stress related. I have 80 gallons of water made up ready to go.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Breathing about 60/min. Started going to the upper 1/3 of tank. Seems to be in the powerhead area this evening. I added 2 air stones. No mucus. He's white but not rusty or odd colored. The spots are flat and like a lack of pigment, not like grains of salt or sand.

Ok, signs are pointing to velvet. Velvet spots on the fish are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit (no api brand either). Assure the medication you use states " treats Oodinum"

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do have some inverts. Cleaner shrimp, sails, crabs, starfish, and one coco worm. Nothing new in the tank for over a year.

I do have a quarantine tank system, just worried about the stress of getting him out and into that tank. I thought it was just stress at first (we had a bad thunderstorm the night before we saw the changes but no loss of power or anything), so didn't want to put him through the additional stress of catching him if it was just stress related. I have 80 gallons of water made up ready to go.

Dont worry about inverts, etc as you are treating in separate tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Breathing about 60/min. Started going to the upper 1/3 of tank. Seems to be in the powerhead area this evening. I added 2 air stones. No mucus. He's white but not rusty or odd colored. The spots are flat and like a lack of pigment, not like grains of salt or sand.

60 bpm is a good solid rate for an adult emperor angel. In my mind, that rules out velvet (Amyloodinium).

Those stress spots are really common in this species and can be caused by marine ich (Cryptocaryon) for flukes (Neobenedenia) bacterial issues, and sometimes for no apparent reason. The history of the fish tends to lead me away from ich. However, when was the last time you added anything to the tank? If it has been a year, Neobenedenia should have shown up by then. Neo has sticky eggs that easily get transported into tanks on anything wet.

You would be able to safely treat this tank with praziquantel - that might at least tell you if it is flukes or not. Neo is tough to eradicate, even with multiple prazi treatments.

Jay

 

[tammieh]

60 bpm is a good solid rate for an adult emperor angel. In my mind, that rules out velvet (Amyloodinium).

Those stress spots are really common in this species and can be caused by marine ich (Cryptocaryon) for flukes (Neobenedenia) bacterial issues, and sometimes for no apparent reason. The history of the fish tends to lead me away from ich. However, when was the last time you added anything to the tank? If it has been a year, Neobenedenia should have shown up by then. Neo has sticky eggs that easily get transported into tanks on anything wet.

You would be able to safely treat this tank with praziquantel - that might at least tell you if it is flukes or not. Neo is tough to eradicate, even with multiple prazi treatments.

Jay

Thank you.

I doubled checked the exact date we added the angel, and it was Feb 14 2022. So not quite a year, but he is the last thing added to the tank.

I'll ask my husband to see how the angel is doing today while I'm working and start the praziquantel tonight.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you.

I doubled checked the exact date we added the angel, and it was Feb 14 2022. So not quite a year, but he is the last thing added to the tank.

I'll ask my husband to see how the angel is doing today while I'm working and start the praziquantel tonight.

I would wonder - if indeed this relates to all of your anemones dying - i.e. a toxin in the water. It's unclear why it would only affect one fish - but IMHO - possible. I have heard that some anemones release various toxins as well as the nematocysts with stress/death - and I wonder if it somehow relates to that. What caused the death of the anemone in the first place (if you know)?

The history and physical symptoms do not (to me suggest velvet or ich per se)

 

[tammieh]

I would wonder - if indeed this relates to all of your anemones dying - i.e. a toxin in the water. It's unclear why it would only affect one fish - but IMHO - possible. I have heard that some anemones release various toxins as well as the nematocysts with stress/death - and I wonder if it somehow relates to that. What caused the death of the anemone in the first place (if you know)?

The history and physical symptoms do not (to me suggest velvet or ich per se)

We were on vacation, so unfortunately don't know what happened. The fish sitter visited daily, but never told us or noticed. This was 3 months ago. We did 2 85 gallon water changes when we got home and do 5 gallons daily with apex. The nitrates got high (in the 50s) when we got home. I think he overfed the tank, but I'm not 100% positive.

The chemistry I listed is from last night. We're planning on a water change and then dosing prazi tonight afterwards.

 

[MnFish1]

We were on vacation, so unfortunately don't know what happened. The fish sitter visited daily, but never told us or noticed. This was 3 months ago. We did 2 85 gallon water changes when we got home and do 5 gallons daily with apex. The nitrates got high (in the 50s) when we got home. I think he overfed the tank, but I'm not 100% positive.

The chemistry I listed is from last night. We're planning on a water change and then dosing prazi tonight afterwards.

These things always happen on vacation!!!

 

[tammieh]

Thank you.

I doubled checked the exact date we added the angel, and it was Feb 14 2022. So not quite a year, but he is the last thing added to the tank.

I'll ask my husband to see how the angel is doing today while I'm working and start the praziquantel tonight.

Update for today: Angel is still swimming around and preferring the upper 1/3 of the tank. He about attacked me as I put in a second serving of algae sheets, so he's still eating. Doesn't look worse, doesn't look better.

My husband found this info about H2O2 dosing ... any thoughts on this vs praziquantel?

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

humble.fish

We're doing a 80ish gallon water change tonight in preparation for the praziquantel, but my husband wanted me to look at the H2O2 dosing info he found.

 

[MnFish1]

No clue wher zester that will help of noe - but bes wish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update for today: Angel is still swimming around and preferring the upper 1/3 of the tank. He about attacked me as I put in a second serving of algae sheets, so he's still eating. Doesn't look worse, doesn't look better.

My husband found this info about H2O2 dosing ... any thoughts on this vs praziquantel?

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

humble.fish

We're doing a 80ish gallon water change tonight in preparation for the praziquantel, but my husband wanted me to look at the H2O2 dosing info he found.

That won't help with flukes. The amount of peroxide needed to control flukes is higher than the fish can stand.

Jay

 

[tammieh]

Woke up this morning and he's back to sleeping in the rocks. Too early to see him in the light, but fingers crossed he doesn't seem any worse. The tank got treated with praziquantel last evening around 6pm.

 

[AydenLincoln]

My angel started a couple of days ago looking a bit off. He's still eating like a pig and comes over to me like normal, but is now hanging up at the top 1/3 of the tank. The other fish (lavender tang, purple tang, orange shoulder tang, clownfish, gobie, banana eel, and long nosed hawkfish) are looking ok and acting normal. We've had everyone for several years now with the angel being the most recent addition over a year ago.

Back in August, we went on vacation for 4 weeks. Our fish sitter isn't the most knowledgeable. During that time, we lost all of our anemones, but no fish and everyone seemed ok when we got back. He didn't report any issues during our time away.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: FOWLR
Aquarium water volume: 300
Filtration type: sump, socks, skimmer, Apex with water change of 5 gallons a day
Lighting: LED
How long has the aquarium been established? 2 years

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Hanna instruments testing
Temperature. 77.7F
pH: 8.6
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025
Ammonia
Nitrite 27 ppb
Nitrate 17.0 ppm
Phosphate 2.5
Copper not in use
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4): 60
Are the affected fish still feeding? Eating like a pig
What remedies have you tried so far? None yet

Hopefully he gets better! And awesome post with great details and detailed information. Others should take note lol!

 

[Rmckoy]

Good morning and hopefully today is a lot better .
Just a question … did you buy him as a juv and watched him transform to his beautiful adult colours ?

 

[tammieh]

Good morning and hopefully today is a lot better .
Just a question … did you buy him as a juv and watched him transform to his beautiful adult colours ?

Thank you! My husband works from home, so I've sent him a message to see how he's doing. I'm just happy he wasn't on the top in the powerhead flow when I went to work this am.

He was a juvenile when we got him. So cool watching him transition.