Help me out of this slump!

Discussion in 'General SPS Discussion' started by Acro maniac, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I dont have a heater, just pump powerheads chiller skimmer and doser
     

  2. watchguy123

    watchguy123 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Photo of the Month Award

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    There are potentially lots of causes. I would think the alkalinity fluctuations between water changes is very minimal and unlikely to cause such changes. Nonetheless, if you can truly see dramatic responses of your acros and Monti's to water changes, then something goofy is going on with that water.

    You may wish to consider chloramine, chlorine or even other pollutants in your ro/di water. I'd take a serious look at your filters in the ro/di system.

    Additionally, lights, nutrients and alk are seemingly related. If your alk is running near sea water and your tips are burning, you may wish to raise your alk. Small adjustments, not large ones though.

    I'd start with evaluating your ro/di system and if that is not productive, then look at your nitrate/alk levels
     
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  3. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    0 for chlorine with the tablet kit from spectra pure whom i got my unit from filters were changed a couple months ago as i thought this was the culpret early on.. also my buddy i make water for has no issues at all with sps and lsp.
    I can verify with fresh water from the local fish store this week use there rodi and mix up some water.
     
  4. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    3.9 v in dt
    2.3v in sump with multimeter
     
  5. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    So after some trial and error i found the dt to 87v so i went through all pumps skimmer ato maxspects and hydor doser chiller unplugged each no change in voltage. unplugged everything that touches water no change. So next i said the only thing left is unplugged all the lights no change. The only thing left that had power going to it was the 4ft power strip under the cabinet i flipped the swich and thats the culpret.
    So now i have a mess of wires going to to different power strips and the dt is at 18v
    Also noticed the tips of 2 acros when everything came back on. ???? Could it be the lack voltage now?
     
  6. watchguy123

    watchguy123 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Photo of the Month Award

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    Curious, do you check salinity of new mixed water or alkalinity or both.
     
  7. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes i verify salinity alk cal and mag to dose new mixed to match tank levels prior to wc
     
  8. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Test kits
    Refractor salinity
    Salifert alk cal mag po4 and n03
    Lamotte for back up alk
    and i just purchased a hanna for alk ( on order)
    Seachem ph and another alk backup
     
  9. Joseph Wright

    Joseph Wright Member R2R Supporter

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    Alk sounds low, do you have a large pH swing, all else sounds good except phosphates. Gfo reactor is great for acro. I never let my alk go below 10. Remember alk is the “resistor” of large pH fluctuations. My mixed reef sps, lps, softies and nems suck up calcium and alk so fast that in order to maintain the parameters Red Sea recommends, I dose with home made drippers made from 5 gallon food grade containers. Kent superbuffer dKh and turbo calcium. And hi concentration too(what I constantly drip) Everything growing like weeds. I Do almost 20 gal WC approx every 10 days on 110 high tank with 20 remote sump(mainly to replenish trace minerals) i use Red Sea reef pro salt. I Have a 20 gal tank directly above my sump w/Kent RO/DI and auto vavle. Mix makeup water at least 3 days in advance. The reserve tank has its own heater and pump. NO LIGHT!!! I keep the whole system as close to the mag/calcium/alk/ph/temp in the Red Sea spec book this way when I do a Wc, I clean my live rock with a small power head or turkey baster, shut down water flow on the skimmer side of the tank( so all the crap floats to the skimmer) and put a new sock in after the water clears and then do the water change. My Lfs uses the same salt and maintains the same parameters.( makes for super easy acclaimation) The point I’m trying to make is, whatever you do, do the same, match the parameters old to new before the change. Bring alk up slow and keep it at least 9 dKh. image.jpg I think you’ll find your niche. Pic of setup in basement attached Hope this helps!! — joe
     
  10. watchguy123

    watchguy123 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Photo of the Month Award

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    It’s challenging problem solving someone else’s tank because we tend to view things from our own perspective. It’s hard to appreciate others testing methods and accuracy. It’s hard to put observations into words as well.

    Low alk and high alk tanks can thrive equally well. Really low nitrate tanks generally require low alk otherwise acro tips typically burn.

    Additionally there are suggestions if missing some trace elements that tips can burn-unfortunately I can’t remember the source of where I read that and I think?? that either iodine or iron were implicated.

    I don’t know of any salt that mixes to 1.025 salinity and has an alk of or near 7.0. It seems one or the other of these measurements is in error.
     
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  11. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Wow you pretty much nailed on the first paragraph.
    With that said today montis and acros look like there on the road to recovery. For the couple days post wc
    Which has been the norm for a few months.
    Testing: I have had a challenge in the past where i was testing showing 8-8.15 dkh only to have a water sample brought to friend and his test showed 9.15 both salifert.
    Weird thing was as I let the alk fall, at 8.45 i retested using his kit and both kits matched. Then continued down to 8- 8.15 . When i found out my kit was off i immediately purchased a new kit that also matched when tested side by side with the old kit. Which lead me to by the lamotte alk kit
     
  12. Flippers4pups

    Flippers4pups Fins up since 1993 R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    I'm not saying to do what I do, but I've always used kalkwasser in my ATO water. Seems to stabilize to some degree my alkalinity swings.l and PH. To adjust my alkalinity, I make up a gallon of sodium bicarbonate solution and hand dose every couple days.

    My system ranges from 8 to 9dkh. Gets down to 8dkh, I dose to get it back up to 9dkh. Never see any adverse effects with my SPS when doing this. Polyps stay out during dosing and after as if nothing happened.

    As @watchguy123 stated, checking your waste water from your RO/DI for chlorine and chloramines is key.
    Why waste water and not the cleaned water? Because if your carbon blocks are near exhausted, the waste water will show chlorine or chloramines. Clean water, if using DI and if the resin is still good, will not show chlorine or chloramines. I think I got that right.

    You need to test for "free and total chlorine" not just chlorine. Do you know what your water supply uses for disinfectant? Chlorine or chloramines? A lot of water supplies use chloramines now instead of chlorine because the chloramines stay in the water longer.

    It's stuff to say this is what the problem is with your water, but it's something to look into.

    https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-test-free-total-chlorine-strips-lamotte.html
     
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  13. Hans-Werner

    Hans-Werner Well-Known Member

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    To me the photograph seems not to show melting Acropora tips but expelled mesenterial filaments. It is a common and quite normal reaction of Acropora to changes in nutrient concentrations.
     
  14. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks @Flippers4pups ill have to look at what exactly is the test i have at home. It came with my spectra pure rodi.
    Also would the guy i supply water to be affected?
     
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  15. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Could you explain in more detail?
     
  16. 2Wheelsonly

    2Wheelsonly Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    I am confused by your testing, you're using a lot of test kits.

    My advice: Your alk isn't what you think it is; hobby grade test kits are all fairly off. Ever read those reviews where one guy uses all test kits and gets different numbers and then sends them off to testing facilities who all get different numbers? Don't use test kits for the actual number, use them to ensure your readings are consistent. I don't freak out when my alk reads 8.5 thinking I need to be 7.5; I freak out when I test 8.5 one day and 7.5 the next. This is why hanna checkers are great, you're getting an easy to read number. Do not use multiple test kits as "backups" to each other because you will get different readings and inadvertently chase params.

    In times like this you need to simplify. Adding GFO and other stuff just doesn't seem like the proper way to get back on track. Stop all that extra junk, work on removing things from your system and not adding. The only reaction I would do in the event of change is more water changes. Focus on ensuring your change water is not the problem, if it isn't focus on getting old water out of your tank via changes. I went through this same scenario, I reacted by adding silly things like GFO, carbon, chemicals when if I just simplified (which is how I got back on track) I would have saved myself thousands of dollars.

    Also, I didn't notice your lights...did that change at all? If the tank of doing good with your same params then maybe you have some bulbs going bad, LED lens are fogged up from salt creep or your changed settings?
     
  17. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Back up kits are just incase i have an issue i can test and refer back in my log to last time i used that kit and compare results. I use salifert daily. Salifert seems to be pretty consistant kit to kit for alk. I have been through dozens over the years. So when i tested using my buddies kit and was 1dkh different i went to a backup. My thought was that a kit might not be accurate to the exact level but it would a show the fluctuations.
    I did drop gfo in the sock for only a few days to bring down po4 due to triton result. Salifert reads 0.03 now
    Ill do a more in depth cleaning of rocks this weekend and suck out all the detritus.
    To try and eliminate the source.
    Leds, i looked back in my log and they are about 3years old, no lenses. I could grab my lux meter a check to see if i have had any drop in intensity.
     
  18. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Hanna checker comes in tomorrow, alk has been stable at 8dkh/ 2.85 meq
    Also have b-ionic 2 part coming in
    This change from brs to b-ionic 2part will be the only change at this time.
    After someone posted it being cuastic.
    Unless there is something that someone points out or can recommend. I dont want to change to much that im not able to identify the cause
    I did check rodi waste water for chlorine with a dpd tablet kit, result 0.
     
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  19. Cory

    Cory Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor

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    Do you have any softies? I've read some things like devil's hand can release chemicals that harm sps. Just a thought. I have a similar problem with my montipora. I dose vodka. But I suspect it's my devil's hand.
     
  20. Acro maniac

    Acro maniac Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    The only soft coral is about 20 leftover radioactive dragon eyes on the back glass behind the rock scape.
     
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