Help! My Clown Fish are Acting Strangely!

[NJBillyV]

I have two clowns in a 10g. QT, they've been in there 4 weeks are were doing great, very active and they had a voracious appetite.

Two weeks ago I did maintenance on the tank including a 20% water change, changed out the filter pads, carbon/GFO, during which I stirred up the sand a bit. The next day the water was a slightly cloudy which did not clear up.

I changed filter pads and added 1 ml of Vibrant. Still cloudy but fish acting fine. Did another 10% water change.

Everyone here thought it was a bacterial bloom from the sand being stir up and suggested I add a bag of ChemiPure Blue, which I did, and add some bacteria to outcompete the loom, which I did, 2 ml of FritzZyme Turbo Start 900.

This all happened over the course of two weeks. The water is still slightly cloudy, no change. Yesterday my clowns were inactive, hanging out together in the top corner of the tank. Today same thing and they didn't eat.

All parameters are perfect, this is an established tank. Except the salinity which was 1.023, usually it's 1.026 somehow it floated down.

I'm also dosing Copper which is at about .75 ppm which I have gradually build up I didn't just dump it all in.

I'd really, really appreciate any advice, I love those little guys!!

 

[moz71]

First. Question are you saying you have sand in tank and adding copper? Usually that isn’t recommended! It is hard to balance the copper. I’m guessing either the copper is too strong and not getting good or accurate reading. Or more probable a lack of oxygen problem due to the bloom. Can you add an airstone?

 

[NJBillyV]

I sure can add an air stone, I'll pick on up on my way home from work! That was my thought also because they are hanging out near the top of the tank.

Does fish hanging out at the top corner of the tank indicate low oxygen?

Copper: The tank only has three rocks and the sand so I assume the sand contains a good amount of nitrifying bacteria, any suggestions? Should I take the sand out? It does have a good amount of Cyano growing on/in it so chucking the sand might be a good idea.

Where are my nitrifying bacteria going to live, just in the rocks or should I add something else?

 

[moz71]

I sure can add an air stone, I'll pick on up on my way home from work! That was my thought also because they are hanging out near the top of the tank.

Does fish hanging out at the top corner of the tank indicate low oxygen?

Copper: The tank only has three rocks and the sand so I assume the sand contains a good amount of nitrifying bacteria, any suggestions? Should I take the sand out? It does have a good amount of Cyano growing on/in it so chucking the sand might be a good idea.

Where are my nitrifying bacteria going to live, just in the rocks or should I add something else?

Your theory of bacteria on rocks and sand is right but not when adding copper the rocks and sand absorb it and make it difficult to get steady copper levels. I always add pvc pipes to my QT. If I were you I stop the copper. Did they have a disease that was showing? Or just doing it as preventative? Also yes near surface indicates needs oxygen Are they near the pump outtake? If so definitely.

 

[moz71]

Thinking specifically about your situation now I would do a massive water change and don’t add the copper. Leave the sand and rocks. Get everything back to square one. Funny thing is I read your post. You have carbon and chemioure. You should NEVER ever have those things in with copper. change water and stop copper

 

[NJBillyV]

Awesome!

So add an airstone and stop copper. Remove the ChemiPure Blue. Do a big water change. Got it.

And they were fine before this event, no disease showing, nothing. And yes they were hanging out by powerhead at the top of the tank.

Dude you rock, thank you so much. I'll update soon.

 

[moz71]

No problem. Stop also the vibrant and anything else for that matter now. You already have the bacteria. Just get it back to square one. I think all the things you did cause a massive rebalance so the massive water change will help greatly. You still may get the bloom come back up because it’s sometimes difficult to stop that cycle. The one way to stop that is get the green killing machine UV in petco. It will kill the bloom in a day in a 10 gallon.

 

[moz71]

Just so you know why not to combine copper with carbon and chemipure etc. those things remove absorb copper so I don’t think you were getting accurate readings and probably needed to put in much more then needed to get reading you were then that caused the chain of events to happen. And adding other things like vibrant caused the broke imbalance get worse. Plus not sure what test kit you were using to test copper but it didn’t matter because of what I explained above. If they are stil Alive I’m sure you can correct. Good luck

 

[NJBillyV]

Update

Picked up a pump and air stone last night. When I got home clowns were the same, up at the top of the tank, hanging out by the powerhead, didn't eat much.

Installed the air stone, removed the ChemiPure, didn't touch the sand, couldn't do a water change because I had none, went to bed.

This morning the fish are doing much better! Chasing each other around the tank and gobbled up their morning feeding. Crisis averted I believe. I'll pick up some water and do a big water change tonight.

I think I'll give it a couple of days then start copper dosing again.

I believe I'm going to cycle some sand a dry rock in another tank and slowly remove the old, cyano infested sand from the QT and chuck it, replacing it with new, cycled sand.

If the situation changes I'll update.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Do you have pics of the clowns under white lights?
Sand not necessary in a qt setting.

You can add a hang on back power filter (Walmart - under $20)
Which will add surface movement, and trap fine particles and clear water right up

 

[moz71]

Glad to hear doing better!! Please before you add more copper read proper Qt procedures especially adding copper as I mentioned before. you should not have any rock or sand or carbon etc. also just my opinion and many will disagree but I keep my fish in QT for weeks and observe and will only add copper if I see problems but I don’t necessarily disagree to treat as a preventative but sometimes creates more problems as you discovered good luck

 

[NJBillyV]

Do you have pics of the clowns under white lights?
Sand not necessary in a qt setting.

You can add a hang on back power filter (Walmart - under $20)
Which will add surface movement, and trap fine particles and clear water right up

Update: They are both back to normal! The air stone did the trick.

I'll take a picture of them tonight, cute little guys.

The tank does have a HOB filter that works great. I've been changing the filters pads regularly, I went to a 100M filter when the bloom started, have changed it daily, yet the water is still a bit cloudy, not nearly as bad as it was.

I thought I had researched QT but I guess I missed a few things. I know most QT tanks are BB with just PVC pipes but I thought that was just a cheap way to do it. I put sand and dry rock in just to make the fish feel more comfortable.

So should I pull the rocks and sand out? My concern with going that route is that I'm not sure where my good bacteria are going to live, on the surface of the PVC?

What would you guys do if you were me?

And again Moz, thanks, you saved the day!

 

[Thaxxx]

Just to let you know...
After you put them in you DT.
The will act weird in there too.
Stay in one corner and live their life there. That's clowns. My pair will make a once a week trip across the 7 feet of tank and explore for about 10 minutes, then go back home to their corner.

 

[Tamberav]

Update: They are both back to normal! The air stone did the trick.

I'll take a picture of them tonight, cute little guys.

The tank does have a HOB filter that works great. I've been changing the filters pads regularly, I went to a 100M filter when the bloom started, have changed it daily, yet the water is still a bit cloudy, not nearly as bad as it was.

I thought I had researched QT but I guess I missed a few things. I know most QT tanks are BB with just PVC pipes but I thought that was just a cheap way to do it. I put sand and dry rock in just to make the fish feel more comfortable.

So should I pull the rocks and sand out? My concern with going that route is that I'm not sure where my good bacteria are going to live, on the surface of the PVC?

What would you guys do if you were me?

And again Moz, thanks, you saved the day!

No rocks when dosing copper. It will absorb the copper messing up levels and you may drop below therapeutic.

I would not add sand as clowns do not need it and if you were to QT a wrasse as such that needs sand, then only maybe an inch of fresh new sand.

The bacteria can live in a sponge inside the HOB. I personally like filter sponges in QT environments as they can be added to an air stone. You just don’t want to change the sponges. A rinse in old tank water is fine.

 

[moz71]

Update: They are both back to normal! The air stone did the trick.

I'll take a picture of them tonight, cute little guys.

The tank does have a HOB filter that works great. I've been changing the filters pads regularly, I went to a 100M filter when the bloom started, have changed it daily, yet the water is still a bit cloudy, not nearly as bad as it was.

I thought I had researched QT but I guess I missed a few things. I know most QT tanks are BB with just PVC pipes but I thought that was just a cheap way to do it. I put sand and dry rock in just to make the fish feel more comfortable.

So should I pull the rocks and sand out? My concern with going that route is that I'm not sure where my good bacteria are going to live, on the surface of the PVC?

What would you guys do if you were me?

And again Moz, thanks, you saved the day!

Your welcome! Bacteria lives on the glass, pvc, in filter etc. with that and some periodic small water changes it will be fine. My opinion to finish out these guys QT I would leave everything and don’t add any chemicals etc. then watch and observe them over next couple weeks and if no signs of disease put them I. Display tank. If you are concerned about them having a disease/parasite etc then you will need to remove the sand and rock. And dose the copper and test level frequently.
also at this time you can add back in some activated carbon to get remaining copper out and may help clear water. BUT DOMT DOSE COPPER IF YOU HAVE CARBON. IN THERE.
Next fish definitely start with suggested QT (no rock or sand) so if you need to put meds in it will not obsorb them.

 

[NJBillyV]

Update 1-28-21

Here they are this morning! Happy and healthy.

I want to treat them with copper before putting them in DT, so I guess my goal for now is to slowly get rid of the rock and sand.

So last night I sucked the top, nasty layer off of the sand bed, and pulled one of three rocks out, the picture is after sand sucking. Did a big water change too.

I just don't want to remove to much too fast so the good bacteria don't all go away.

What media should I use to house good bacteria once all the rock and sand are gone that won't absorb the copper?? Some filter floss, a sponge, ceramic bio-media perhaps???

I can seed the media with good bacteria in another tank while I slowly pull sand/rock out. Add some PVC and then I'm ready to start dosing copper again??

Am I thinking about this correctly?

This is what the QT looks like now.

 

[moz71]

For those small fish you will have enough bacteria on glass filter etc. the filter floss is the most you need. You can also put in pvc pieces now since that will also give more surface area. That is all that is needed. Great idea removing slowly. But put in pvc now. If you had bigger fish in that small tank would be a different problem but you will be fine. Don’t add the ceramic. What copper are you using and test kit? I suggest the Hanna checkers for copper

 

[NJBillyV]

I'm using Copper Power and API. The API is a little tricky to read but it seems to work okay.

So what do you think next, after I stick some floss and PVC in there, suck the rest of the sand out?

 

[moz71]

Yes take out rocks and sand. IMHO I don’t trust the API test kits. Way to hard to get good reading especially on measuring poison that you are putting in tank(that’s what copper is to fish) but low doses kills parasites. You just put so much time and effort in I wouldn’t risk it at that point. Again just my honest opinion. But if you are confident go for it. Good luck

 

[NJBillyV]

UPDATE:

Fish are doing great. All but one small rock and sand removed from tank, replaced by a seeded sponge and a bubble sponge filter and a 4" PVC elbow, which the absolutely love. Copper dosing has begun again. All is right with the world.