Help! My fish are dying!

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Gravityband, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Hey guys, so I got my Fluval M90 36 gallon tank set up roughly 6 months now, everything is going well and we are loving the tank. Around March, we had an ich problem and treated our tank with Medic from Polyp Lab for like three straight weeks. Sometimes it seems like the situation is under control, sometimes seems like it came back with a revenge. Long story short I decided to go the cupper treatment route. I purchased a bunch of equipment to set up the hospital tank, and put the BioMax filter insert into my current tank trying to build up the bacteria colony. Just right after I did that, ich seems like they are gone. Then I decided to just leave that BioMax in my display tank and just wait and see if ich comes back.



    Two months went by, nothing happened. Couple weeks ago, I decided to remove that BioMax from my tank simply because I didn’t think I needed it anymore. Sure enough, bad things started to happen, my long nose hawk started to hide behind a big rock and breath heavily, he still comes out when I feed frozen food. And this morning I found him dead. Now my clowns and Flame angel are doing the same, not swimming around, breathing heavily, hiding in rocks…and it seems like they got a layer of this foggy looking thing on their fins and bodies, which is not like ich I used to see on them..Can somebody please help me out and give us a few pointers..







    Current Tank parameters:

    Fluval M90

    Salinity: 1.025

    pH: 8.2

    NO2: 0

    NO3: 0

    Ammonia: 0



    Current Tank Mates:

    2 Ocellaries Clowns

    1 Long Nose Hawk

    1 Flame Angel

    1 Midas Blenny

    1 Diamond Gobby

    1 Fire shrimp

    1 Arrow Crab

    1 Pom Pom

    2 Nassarius Snails

    3 Fighting Conch

    2 Margarita Snails

    2 Trochus Snails

    1 Blue Leg Hermit

    1 Red Leg Hermit

    1 Orange/Black Hermit

    2 Zoanthids Frags

    1 Pulsing Xenia

    1 Frogspawn

    1 Hairy Mushroom
     
    Tags:

  2. Big G

    Big G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,091
    Likes Received:
    6,841
    Location:
    Southern, Oregon
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  3. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Thank you for that link! I am studying it right now! And here’s a photo. His fins and eyes are kinda foggy..[​IMG]
     
  4. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18

    After carefully reading this link, my clowns have been having stringy poop lately, like a lot more often than before. I guess this is the caused by internal worms? Combined with lost of appetite, they would come out when I am feeding and will try to chase the frozen shrimp but then not eat anything...

    Also, my two clowns and Flame angel are all showing symptoms for Velvet...they all have white spots on them and breathing very heavily..and also swam in front of power head, we thought they were just playing and "surfing"....

    Any comments?
     
  5. Big G

    Big G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,091
    Likes Received:
    6,841
    Location:
    Southern, Oregon
    Stingy poop = internal parasites. But Velvet takes precedent. You have to act very fast to save your fish. Time is not on your side. Do you have a QT to treat the fish? Here's Humblefish's Emergency Velvet Treatment Plan. It's important to note that he has found that the second step, treating with an acriflavine product greatly increased survival rates.

    The short version:
    • 5 minute freshwater dip
    • Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:
    1. Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
    2. Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)
    • After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
    • While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
    • Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.
     
    Maritimer likes this.
  6. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18

    So I don’t have a QT or HT set up at the moment, however I do have the equipment to do so: tank, filter, copper, etc.. but doesn’t this take time to set up? (bacteria)? Or am I mistaken? Please advise on how to quickly set up a hospital/quarantine tank..



    So let me make sure I got this correctly, I need to get the fish and dip him in RO for five minutes.

    Then transfer him into a salinity/ temperature matching container, and does Acriflavine and leave him in there for 75-90 mins.



    Then transfer him into a Chloroquine phosphate pre dosed QT along with antibiotics?



    I am sorry I know the steps are clearly listed but I just wanna make sure I fully understand this..
     
  7. blkhwkz

    blkhwkz Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    620
    Location:
    DeKalb, IL
    Get a bottle of Biospira or Dr Tim's. I have used Biospira to instantly cycle a tank in an emergency and then use ammonia badge to watch for ammonia buildup. Generally better if you can give it a day after adding Biospira, in this case, I would just get 2 bottles and use 1 and keep the other on standby in case you need it.
     
    PerplexyHexy, Big G and Gravityband like this.
  8. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Thank you for the tip!
     
  9. Big G

    Big G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,091
    Likes Received:
    6,841
    Location:
    Southern, Oregon
    Yep. Good to soak the filter media in Dr. Tim's or Biospira. Use both a filter foam pad and media like (really helps with ammonia build up) Seachem's Matrix or Fluval's BioMax soaked in a bowl for a few hours and then pour the liquid into the QT.

    5 minute freshwater dip will dislodge a considerable number of velvet parasites. Studies suggest up to 85-90% in one dip. This will help by giving short term relief for the fish's breathing.
    75-90 minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally is good as it has both antiseptic and antibiotic qualities which will help with infections caused by the numerous insertion points by the velvet parasites.
    Then into the QT with either CP if you have some or copper (recommend Copper Power. Avoid Coppersafe).

    While the fish are in the QT, the tank goes fallow "fishless" for 76 days to starve out any Ich, Velvet parasites. Continue to feed any snails, corals, plants. Just no fish in the display tank for 76 days.

    Lastly, once all of this is done a good QT for all incoming fish, inverts, corals will keep parasites out of your display.
     
  10. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Can I use the same heater and air stone for both chemical bath and QT?
     
  11. Big G

    Big G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,091
    Likes Received:
    6,841
    Location:
    Southern, Oregon
    Clean with bleach, rinse, rinse, dry. Then clean with vinegar, rinse, rinse, dry. And if you are really concerned, clean lastly with hydrogen peroxide, rinse, rinse, dry.
     
    Gravityband likes this.
  12. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Thank you so much! And should I treat all the fish (sick and healthy ones) together? Or take turns?
     
  13. Big G

    Big G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,091
    Likes Received:
    6,841
    Location:
    Southern, Oregon
    I'd take them one at a time into the fw dip & RRR bath. Less stressful and easier to observe ;) But they all need to go through the process to make sure the parasites have been eliminated.
     
    Gravityband likes this.
  14. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Thank you!

    And I am thinking using a 500cc plastic cup for freshwater dip and any suggestions on containers for chemical bath?
     
  15. GoldeneyeRet

    GoldeneyeRet Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    735
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I use buckets for this.
     
    Gravityband likes this.
  16. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Just wanted to post and update some info here, my wife and I spent five hours last night going to local fish stores and set up everything. We chose not to do the freshwater dip because it was hard to get the freshwater to the same pH level as my display tank, we didn't wanna burden our fish more..so we did the Ruby Rally bath for 90 mins and now they are in a 20g QT with copper level of 0.8..Flame angel went back to be Gods angel this morning, but my two clowns, midas blenny, and diamond goby survived the process...Just wanted to thank everyone for their support and commentaries.. we really appreciate it.. :)
     
    najer likes this.
  17. najer

    najer Valuable Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    8,769
    Location:
    England Earth
    Fingers crossed for you, do you have and air stone / bubbler in there, it should help their breathing?
     
    Gravityband likes this.
  18. Gravityband

    Gravityband Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    18
    Thank you!!

    and I did use air pump and air stone when giving them Acriflavine bath. Now they are in QT with only an Aquaclear HOB filtration system, should I add air pump to it as well? or the water movement from Aquaclear is enough?
     
    najer likes this.
  19. najer

    najer Valuable Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    8,769
    Location:
    England Earth
    How is their breathing, if it appears ok you might not need it?
     
    Gravityband likes this.
  20. blkhwkz

    blkhwkz Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    620
    Location:
    DeKalb, IL
    I always use an air pump, it doesn't hurt. I use one rated for 150 gallons on my 29 gallon QT and I have a smaller one I use on a smaller QT setup I have. Whether or not I have meds in them, I run the HOB filter, a Jebao wavemaker and an air pump. I am sure it is overkill, but I do it anyways.
     
    najer and Gravityband like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
Loading...