Help!! Tank is crashing - all my LPS are dying to tissue recession

[JayFish4004]

I am in trouble. Had a thriving tank up until I did an ICP test and noticed phosphates were out of control at 2.1ppm - ended up dropping it to 0.3ppm with phosguard over the span of about 50 days, and some type of process in dropping the phosphates seems to be killing my LPS. Tank is a year and a half old and here are parameters.

My only theory is potentially the alkalinity plummeted due to either the Phosguard or dropping phos. Tank normally runs at 8.7 dkh and the phosguard treatment seemed to have dropped it to 7.9 dkh. After a small water change it went back up to 8.3 dkh last night. Could this swinging be what is causing my issues or is it maybe something else entirely? At a loss trying to figure this out.

Salinity	33.91 PSU	35.00 PSU	-1.09 PSU		View
Carbonate hardness	7.13 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	-0.37 °dKH		View
Major elements
Chloride	18982 mg/l	18983 mg/l	-1.60 mg/l		View
Sodium	10547 mg/l	10546 mg/l	+0.90 mg/l		View
Magnesium	1302 mg/l	1261 mg/l	+40.92 mg/l		View
Sulfur	977.6 mg/l	882.1 mg/l	+95.54 mg/l		View
Calcium	420.1 mg/l	403.6 mg/l	+16.49 mg/l		View
Potassium	431.1 mg/l	391.2 mg/l	+39.95 mg/l		View
Bromine	51.40 mg/l	64.24 mg/l	-12.84 mg/l		View
Strontium	8.69 mg/l	7.67 mg/l	+1.02 mg/l		View
Boron	4.75 mg/l	4.22 mg/l	+0.54 mg/l		View
Fluorine	1.04 mg/l	1.25 mg/l	-0.21 mg/l		View
Minor elements
Lithium	81.07 µg/l	163.0 µg/l	-81.92 µg/l		View
Silicon	101.7 µg/l	95.88 µg/l	+5.82 µg/l		View
Iodine	37.67 µg/l	62.32 µg/l	-24.65 µg/l		View
Barium	64.45 µg/l	9.59 µg/l	+54.86 µg/l		View
Molybdenum	10.93 µg/l	11.51 µg/l	-0.57 µg/l		View
Nickel	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Manganese	u.	0.96 µg/l	-0.96 µg/l		View
Arsenic	u.	1.44 µg/l	-1.44 µg/l		View
Beryllium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Chrome	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Cobalt	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Iron	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Copper	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Selenium	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Silver	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Vanadium	u.	1.44 µg/l	-1.44 µg/l		View
Zinc	u.	1.92 µg/l	-1.92 µg/l		View
Tin	u.	0.48 µg/l	-0.48 µg/l		View
Nutrients
Nitrate	24.21 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+22.21 mg/l		View
Phosphorus	99.41 µg/l	14.38 µg/l	+85.03 µg/l		View
Phosphate	0.30 mg/l	0.04 mg/l	+0.26 mg/l		View
Pollutants
Aluminium	52.46 µg/l	0.10 µg/l	+52.36 µg/l		View
Antimony	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Bismuth	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Lead	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Cadmium	u.	0.19 µg/l	-0.19 µg/l		View
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Thallium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Titanium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

 

[CoralB]

Yes it can especially if it’s done too quickly . Given your comments and your parameters I would suggested not to bring them that low . 0.05 - 0.1 is the sweet spot I go for . Slow and steady is key in this hobby .

 

[JayFish4004]

Yes it can especially if it’s done too quickly . Given your comments and your parameters I would suggested not to bring them that low . 0.05 - 0.1 is the sweet spot I go for . Slow and steady is key in this hobby .

I have been trying to let it restabilize over the last week - completely stopping the phosguard. It’s now at 0.6ppm. Anything I can do to save these LPS or is it just a waiting game at this point?

I tried dipping the green torch for 20min in Seachem Reef Dip yesterday and that seemed to make it worse and maybe rules out bacteria as a cause.

Should I try using Fritz Sodium Bicarbonate to slowly get the alk back to 8.7dkh or would that be too risky?

 

[CoralB]

Keep it stable and watch at this point . After it’s stable and it still recedes . There are multiple ways others have treated the receding . Myself I had varying success dosing live zooxanthellae after dipping the coral in reef primer shot by poly labs to help stop the STN. I think your success will rely mostly on the corals health and it individual ability to thrive and come back

 

[JayFish4004]

Keep it stable and watch at this point . After it’s stable and it still recedes . There are multiple ways others have treated the receding . Myself I had varying success dosing live zooxanthellae after dipping the coral in reef primer shot by poly labs to help stop the STN. I think your success will rely mostly on the corals health and it individual ability to thrive and come back

When you say stable does that mean stop weekly water changes as well?

Can the receding stop on its own or is it like an intervene or it dies scenario? This green torch used to be my most resilient coral - never receding, never got mad which is why this is such a bummer.

 

[CoralB]

Water changes are fine as long as cal , mag, alk, temp, and ph are close to what your tank water is .

Keeping your parameters correct range and stable from here on out might be enough to stop the recession In my opinion . If it doesn’t then yes intervention may help .once stn or rtn starts it’s hard to stop . I mentioned what I’ve done in the past and it was a year or two ago and it was the only time I had ever experienced it . My success after treatment was saving 3out of 6 sps . . There are threads on this in this forum that I would suggest you search and read . There may be new suggestions and success with this issue . I wish you luck and hope this helps with the limited personal experiences and knowledge I have on this subject . Good luck !!

 

[JayFish4004]

Water changes are fine as long as cal , mag, alk, temp, and ph are close to what your tank water is .

Keeping your parameters correct range and stable from here on out might be enough to stop the recession In my opinion . If it doesn’t then yes intervention may help .once stn or rtn starts it’s hard to stop . I mentioned what I’ve done in the past and it was a year or two ago and it was the only time I had ever experienced it . My success after treatment was saving 3out of 6 sps . . There are threads on this in this forum that I would suggest you search and read . There may be new suggestions and success with this issue . I wish you luck and hope this helps with the limited personal experiences and knowledge I have on this subject . Good luck !!

My water change water is 9.0 dkh and the tank is currently sitting at 8.3dkh. Would it make sense if I dosed sodium bicarbonate slowly to bring it up by .1-.2 dkh per day until the tank matches my salt mix at 9 or is that difference not large enough?

 

[CoralB]

Depends on how big yourtank is as to how much your water change is . If it’s 5 - 10 % shouldn’t be bad for a water change should bring it up over time

 

[JayFish4004]

Depends on how big yourtank is as to how much your water change is . If it’s 5 - 10 % shouldn’t be bad

Its about 20gallons - I did roughly a 15% change yesterday and it increased my alk by 0.4dkh - before phosguard I would only be seeing 0.1-0.3 increases tops. Im not sure if thats what upset everything or not.

 

[CoralB]

It may not, it’s hard to say for me on my end not knowing all things that may have changed or got introduced or not . Look at the corals for little critters like flat worms and the like . But going by what you stated in opening , yes drastic changes can harm coral .

 

[Lavey29]

Phosguard does nothing to affect alk. I have been using it constantly for 1.5 years. Your ICP shows multiple areas out of spec. The high phosphate alone could hurt corals but the affect may take months to finally show and then you have a cascading effect like you are seeing.

We're you not checking phosphate weekly? I would do multiple water changes to try and get all parameters back in check. Your slight alk drop is irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[Spare time]

I don't think a rapid drop in phosphate would cause any big issue. What are you using to test phosphate?

 

[JayFish4004]

I don't think a rapid drop in phosphate would cause any big issue. What are you using to test phosphate?

Hanna checker coupled with ATI test - im certain testing is accurate. If its not the rapid drop in phos Im not quite certain what else it could be if we’re ruling out the alk, but maybe its a lack of stability in the phos since once stuff started going south I stopped the phosguard and it has since started going back up again to 0.6 from 0.3

 

[JayFish4004]

Phosguard does nothing to affect alk. I have been using it constantly for 1.5 years. Your ICP shows multiple areas out of spec. The high phosphate alone could hurt corals but the affect may take months to finally show and then you have a cascading effect like you are seeing.

We're you not checking phosphate weekly? I would do multiple water changes to try and get all parameters back in check. Your slight alk drop is irrelevant in my opinion.

Tank has been running with these param’s for over a year - only difference being running Phosguard dropped phos from 2.1ppm to 0.3ppm in 60 days and added about 40 aluminum on my latest test, which should still be well under an issue.

All of the corals were completely thriving at 2.1ppm and only started to deteriorate after dropping them, which I understand the high phos is a problem but maybe not an immediate killer like I seem to be dealing with now.

My LFS thinks its the fluctuating phosphates and that I should add 1 gram per gallon of water of Rowaphos asap and stabilize the phos.

The only solace I can take right now is thank the lord I only have a 20 gal which has limited the number of corals I can add. Losing these LPS will be expensive but wouldve been far more expensive in a larger tank.

 

[JayFish4004]

Phosguard does nothing to affect alk. I have been using it constantly for 1.5 years. Your ICP shows multiple areas out of spec. The high phosphate alone could hurt corals but the affect may take months to finally show and then you have a cascading effect like you are seeing.

We're you not checking phosphate weekly? I would do multiple water changes to try and get all parameters back in check. Your slight alk drop is irrelevant in my opinion.

One thing about this hobby - the need to control phosphates did not come on my radar until it was too late. Everyone talks all day about nitrates but phosphates were never on my radar outside of thinking you export those the same way you do nitrates. Had no idea they couldnt be controlled with water changes.

 

[Lavey29]

Tank has been running with these param’s for over a year - only difference being running Phosguard dropped phos from 2.1ppm to 0.3ppm in 60 days and added about 40 aluminum on my latest test, which should still be well under an issue.

All of the corals were completely thriving at 2.1ppm and only started to deteriorate after dropping them, which I understand the high phos is a problem but maybe not an immediate killer like I seem to be dealing with now.

My LFS thinks its the fluctuating phosphates and that I should add 1 gram per gallon of water of Rowaphos asap and stabilize the phos.

The only solace I can take right now is thank the lord I only have a 20 gal which has limited the number of corals I can add. Losing these LPS will be expensive but wouldve been far more expensive in a larger tank.

So if everything was thriving at the elevated level then why make a drastic change?

I seriously doubt you have been running that high for over a year. I still think the affects take months to materialize because corals stress greatly internally and when things finally show externally then the detrimental affect is already well progressed.

 

[Lavey29]

One thing about this hobby - the need to control phosphates did not come on my radar until it was too late. Everyone talks all day about nitrates but phosphates were never on my radar outside of thinking you export those the same way you do nitrates. Had no idea they couldnt be controlled with water changes.

True water changes do very little for phosphate but look at your ICP, you have undetectable iron and other key trace elements areas. You have a wide spectrum of things that need to be addressed to help your coral recover. If you have any chaeto gro, dose some to help your trace defiencies.

 

[JayFish4004]

So if everything was thriving at the elevated level then why make a drastic change?

I seriously doubt you have been running that high for over a year. I still think the affects take months to materialize because corals stress greatly internally and when things finally show externally then the detrimental affect is already well progressed.

Cuz Im an idiot and everyone was telling me I needed to drop them asap when I asked.

Sorry the phos went from undetectable to 2.1ppm in about 3-4 months after starting to feed TDO pellets earlier in the year, then when I sought advice I landed on the solve to drop them and over the last 60 days or so I dropped them to 0.3.

From there the torches specifically got super angry which caused me to stop the Phosguard and now the Phos has crept back up to 0.6 over the last couple weeks.

 

[JayFish4004]

True water changes do very little for phosphate but look at your ICP, you have undetectable iron and other key trace elements areas. You have a wide spectrum of things that need to be addressed to help your coral recover. If you have any chaeto gro, dose some to help your trace defiencies.

Do you think running Polyfilter is pulling my iron?

 

[Lavey29]

Cuz Im an idiot and everyone was telling me I needed to drop them asap when I asked.

Sorry the phos went from undetectable to 2.1ppm in about 3-4 months after starting to feed TDO pellets earlier in the year, then when I sought advice I landed on the solve to drop them and over the last 60 days or so I dropped them to 0.3.

From there the torches specifically got super angry which caused me to stop the Phosguard and now the Phos has crept back up to 0.6 over the last couple weeks.

Negative, you're not an idiot just learning the ins and outs of this challenging hobby like the rest of us. They can recover with help. Get away from pellets except for occasional snack. Feed frozen and it won't spike nutrients.