Help!! Tank is crashing - all my LPS are dying to tissue recession

[Goodersgold]

Firstly, really sorry for your losses, but a great thread that will possibly stop me from going down the exact same road.
So thank you to all contributors. I recently swapped from a 10gal nano, to a 20gal nano and I'm experiencing similar issues. In the smaller tank everything was doing really well, the new tank after 6 months not so well. Obviously with a larger tank I have a little more livestock, but my Phosphate and Nitrate levels are high, 1.5ppm and 28 respectively. I have been dosing 1ml Lanthanum Chloride per day to reduce PO4 due to, I think Phosphate being bound in my dead rock, but my hammer corals are similar to your examples. I have been dosing for 2 months now and I cant get the PO4 below .1 and stable. I do a 20% water change every 2 weeks and test a lot! Interestingly I have zero algae in the tank, everything looks super clean (maybe too clean!) I don't want to chase numbers but I also don't want to loose livestock. I feed my fish Halikari Micro pellet and Seaweed Extreme mix twice a day, I think I may stop the Lanthanum dose, cut the feed in half and continue with water changes and see what happens with a month of testing? peoples thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Smoke-Town]

I only read the first page, but all I see is alk talk... my alk swings from 6.5 to 9.5 and doesn't negatively affect my sps or lps... I would think it's a contaminant in the tank. Not sure exactly how to read that icp test. Is the first row your result, second row a max, and last row a min?

 

[Miami Reef]

Phosguard contains aluminum that can leach out and irritate corals, especially if using large amounts.

I personally do not believe alkalinity nor phosphate level has anything to do with this.

Has your temperature increased lately?

 

[Dburr1014]

I only read the first page, but all I see is alk talk... my alk swings from 6.5 to 9.5 and doesn't negatively affect my sps or lps... I would think it's a contaminant in the tank. Not sure exactly how to read that icp test. Is the first row your result, second row a max, and last row a min?

First row looks like result, 2nd range, 3rd difference.

The pics on August 18 look like they are receeded. The new pics are even more receeded.

Did anything crazy happen say, 6 months ago?

Alk dropping 0.6 is not going to have an effect. Not like this.
Po4 very high to very low, maybe.
Could have been because po4 was very high to begin with. LPS start to receed but can still look great for months before they show ill signs.
So what's the history from 6 months ago? Anything at all change? Big alk spike? Lights change? New additions?

This would help pinpoint I think.

 

[JayFish4004]

Firstly, really sorry for your losses, but a great thread that will possibly stop me from going down the exact same road.
So thank you to all contributors. I recently swapped from a 10gal nano, to a 20gal nano and I'm experiencing similar issues. In the smaller tank everything was doing really well, the new tank after 6 months not so well. Obviously with a larger tank I have a little more livestock, but my Phosphate and Nitrate levels are high, 1.5ppm and 28 respectively. I have been dosing 1ml Lanthanum Chloride per day to reduce PO4 due to, I think Phosphate being bound in my dead rock, but my hammer corals are similar to your examples. I have been dosing for 2 months now and I cant get the PO4 below .1 and stable. I do a 20% water change every 2 weeks and test a lot! Interestingly I have zero algae in the tank, everything looks super clean (maybe too clean!) I don't want to chase numbers but I also don't want to loose livestock. I feed my fish Halikari Micro pellet and Seaweed Extreme mix twice a day, I think I may stop the Lanthanum dose, cut the feed in half and continue with water changes and see what happens with a month of testing? peoples thoughts would be appreciated.

Appreciate the kind words - while Im still figuring this out myself take my advice with a grain of salt - but I think you probably first need to start in on rowaphos instead of dosing. The rowaphos can sit in a media bag somewhere passively in the back of the tank and honestly Im not sure of another way that would stabilize a tank phos wants to creep.

Obviously in a perfect world you would dial in feeding quantity, but even then it feels like in tanks our size more needs to be done.

I personally think being as close to .1 as possible is fine. I was in the same boat - algae was a non-issue but I do have cyano creeping in now that Im lowering em which may have to do with throwing off my balance a bit.

 

[JayFish4004]

Phosguard contains aluminum that can leach out and irritate corals, especially if using large amounts.

I personally do not believe alkalinity nor phosphate level has anything to do with this.

Has your temperature increased lately?

Nope temp is stable as a rock and I use an Inkbird controller - never fluctuates more than half a degree.

Phosguard did bring in aluminum but at 50 I dont think that was high enough to kill anything. I honestly have to believe it was the phos drop - there is no other explanation I can get to.

 

[JayFish4004]

First row looks like result, 2nd range, 3rd difference.

The pics on August 18 look like they are receeded. The new pics are even more receeded.

Did anything crazy happen say, 6 months ago?

Alk dropping 0.6 is not going to have an effect. Not like this.
Po4 very high to very low, maybe.
Could have been because po4 was very high to begin with. LPS start to receed but can still look great for months before they show ill signs.
So what's the history from 6 months ago? Anything at all change? Big alk spike? Lights change? New additions?

This would help pinpoint I think.

The crazy thing is I bought 2 Biota mandarins in April and went way overboard on the TDO pellets due to the complexity of making sure they’re getting fed.

I was putting a ton of pellets in the tank and I had no idea the phosphates were going to climb so drastically, I was keeping more of a pulse on nitrates and assuming weekly water changes would keep phos in check like it was doing for nitrates. Boy was I wrong haha.

The hammers were definitely angry about the high phos but didn’t seem to phase anything else. Then once I dropped the phos all of my euphyllia plummeted.

Outside of that - all other variables have remained constant.

Here are my test results on April 22 which was kind of the calm before the storm. By July my phos was at 1.7ppm from .1 in April.

Salinity	34.79 PSU	35.00 PSU	-0.21 PSU		View
Carbonate hardness	8.11 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	+0.61 °dKH		View
Major elements
Chloride	19253 mg/l	19447 mg/l	-194.5 mg/l		View
Sodium	10912 mg/l	10804 mg/l	+108.1 mg/l		View
Magnesium	1357 mg/l	1292 mg/l	+65.28 mg/l		View
Sulfur	1054 mg/l	903.6 mg/l	+150.0 mg/l		View
Calcium	440.9 mg/l	413.5 mg/l	+27.37 mg/l		View
Potassium	424.8 mg/l	400.7 mg/l	+24.03 mg/l		View
Bromine	49.48 mg/l	65.81 mg/l	-16.33 mg/l		View
Strontium	8.93 mg/l	7.86 mg/l	+1.08 mg/l		View
Boron	4.75 mg/l	4.32 mg/l	+0.43 mg/l		View
Fluorine	1.56 mg/l	1.28 mg/l	+0.29 mg/l		View
Minor elements
Lithium	102.6 µg/l	167.0 µg/l	-64.41 µg/l		View
Silicon	109.0 µg/l	98.22 µg/l	+10.82 µg/l		View
Iodine	24.70 µg/l	63.84 µg/l	-39.14 µg/l		View
Barium	69.41 µg/l	9.82 µg/l	+59.59 µg/l		View
Molybdenum	16.80 µg/l	11.79 µg/l	+5.01 µg/l		View
Nickel	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Manganese	u.	0.98 µg/l	-0.98 µg/l		View
Arsenic	u.	1.47 µg/l	-1.47 µg/l		View
Beryllium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Chrome	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Cobalt	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Iron	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Copper	1.16 µg/l	0.49 µg/l	+0.67 µg/l		View
Selenium	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Silver	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Vanadium	0.65 µg/l	1.47 µg/l	-0.82 µg/l		View
Zinc	u.	1.96 µg/l	-1.96 µg/l		View
Tin	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Nutrients
Nitrate	31.70 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+29.70 mg/l		View
Phosphorus	31.98 µg/l	14.73 µg/l	+17.25 µg/l		View
Phosphate	0.10 mg/l	0.04 mg/l	+0.05 mg/l		View
Pollutants
Aluminium	9.27 µg/l	0.10 µg/l	+9.17 µg/l		View
Antimony	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Bismuth	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Lead	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Cadmium	u.	0.20 µg/l	-0.20 µg/l		View
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Thallium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Titanium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

 

[JayFish4004]

For comparison - here is the July ICP after feeding an abundance of pellets between April and July:

Salinity	34.41 PSU	35.00 PSU	-0.59 PSU		View
Carbonate hardness	7.77 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	+0.27 °dKH		View
Major elements
Chloride	19170 mg/l	19243 mg/l	-73.10 mg/l		View
Sodium	10731 mg/l	10690 mg/l	+40.60 mg/l		View
Magnesium	1350 mg/l	1278 mg/l	+71.63 mg/l		View
Sulfur	1008 mg/l	894.1 mg/l	+114.1 mg/l		View
Calcium	442.7 mg/l	409.2 mg/l	+33.58 mg/l		View
Potassium	427.6 mg/l	396.5 mg/l	+31.07 mg/l		View
Bromine	48.41 mg/l	65.11 mg/l	-16.70 mg/l		View
Strontium	8.94 mg/l	7.77 mg/l	+1.17 mg/l		View
Boron	5.11 mg/l	4.28 mg/l	+0.83 mg/l		View
Fluorine	1.57 mg/l	1.26 mg/l	+0.31 mg/l		View
Minor elements
Lithium	89.48 µg/l	165.2 µg/l	-75.74 µg/l		View
Silicon	108.7 µg/l	97.19 µg/l	+11.54 µg/l		View
Iodine	40.78 µg/l	63.17 µg/l	-22.39 µg/l		View
Barium	72.67 µg/l	9.72 µg/l	+62.96 µg/l		View
Molybdenum	12.44 µg/l	11.66 µg/l	+0.77 µg/l		View
Nickel	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Manganese	u.	0.97 µg/l	-0.97 µg/l		View
Arsenic	u.	1.46 µg/l	-1.46 µg/l		View
Beryllium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Chrome	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Cobalt	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Iron	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Copper	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Selenium	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Silver	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Vanadium	1.75 µg/l	1.46 µg/l	+0.29 µg/l		View
Zinc	1.10 µg/l	1.94 µg/l	-0.84 µg/l		View
Tin	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l		View
Nutrients
Nitrate	40.03 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+38.03 mg/l		View
Phosphorus	575.1 µg/l	14.58 µg/l	+560.5 µg/l		View
Phosphate	1.76 mg/l	0.04 mg/l	+1.72 mg/l		View
Pollutants
Aluminium	10.58 µg/l	0.10 µg/l	+10.48 µg/l		View
Antimony	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Bismuth	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Lead	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Cadmium	u.	0.19 µg/l	-0.19 µg/l		View
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Thallium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Titanium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l		View
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

 

[JayFish4004]

And for good measure - here is January - tank was about 9 months old and I was only feeding mysis. Had no detectable phosphates.

Salinity	32.96 PSU	35.00 PSU	-2.04 PSU		View
Carbonate hardness	7.48 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	-0.02 °dKH		View
Major elements
Chloride	18459 mg/l	18547 mg/l	-88.10 mg/l		View
Sodium	10353 mg/l	10304 mg/l	+48.90 mg/l		View
Magnesium	1278 mg/l	1232 mg/l	+46.61 mg/l		View
Sulfur	910.5 mg/l	861.8 mg/l	+48.77 mg/l		View
Calcium	401.7 mg/l	394.4 mg/l	+7.30 mg/l		View
Potassium	407.4 mg/l	382.2 mg/l	+25.25 mg/l		View
Bromine	44.86 mg/l	62.76 mg/l	-17.90 mg/l		View
Strontium	7.94 mg/l	7.49 mg/l	+0.45 mg/l		View
Boron	4.80 mg/l	4.12 mg/l	+0.68 mg/l		View
Fluorine	1.68 mg/l	1.22 mg/l	+0.46 mg/l		View
Minor elements
Lithium	120.0 µg/l	159.2 µg/l	-39.21 µg/l		View
Silicon	115.3 µg/l	93.67 µg/l	+21.65 µg/l		View
Iodine	12.08 µg/l	60.89 µg/l	-48.80 µg/l		View
Barium	56.40 µg/l	9.37 µg/l	+47.03 µg/l		View
Molybdenum	11.98 µg/l	11.24 µg/l	+0.74 µg/l		View
Nickel	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Manganese	u.	0.94 µg/l	-0.94 µg/l		View
Arsenic	u.	1.41 µg/l	-1.41 µg/l		View
Beryllium	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Chrome	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Cobalt	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Iron	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Copper	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Selenium	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Silver	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Vanadium	u.	1.41 µg/l	-1.41 µg/l		View
Zinc	0.90 µg/l	1.87 µg/l	-0.97 µg/l		View
Tin	u.	0.47 µg/l	-0.47 µg/l		View
Nutrients
Nitrate	12.31 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+10.31 mg/l		View
Phosphorus	u.	14.05 µg/l	-14.05 µg/l		View
Phosphate	u.	0.04 mg/l	-0.04 mg/l		View
Pollutants
Aluminium	26.22 µg/l	0.09 µg/l	+26.13 µg/l		View
Antimony	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Bismuth	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Lead	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Cadmium	u.	0.19 µg/l	-0.19 µg/l		View
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Thallium	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Titanium	u.	0.09 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l		View
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l		View
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

 

[Goodersgold]

Appreciate the kind words - while Im still figuring this out myself take my advice with a grain of salt - but I think you probably first need to start in on rowaphos instead of dosing. The rowaphos can sit in a media bag somewhere passively in the back of the tank and honestly Im not sure of another way that would stabilize a tank phos wants to creep.

Obviously in a perfect world you would dial in feeding quantity, but even then it feels like in tanks our size more needs to be done.

I personally think being as close to .1 as possible is fine. I was in the same boat - algae was a non-issue but I do have cyano creeping in now that Im lowering em which may have to do with throwing off my balance a bit.

I have Rowaphos in there too!

Here's something that is making my head hurt this morning...Yesterday I took myself off to my LFS to get 50 Ltrs of fresh salt water and some Mysis shrimp, carried out a 75% water change and fed with the Mysis. This morning I tested the Nitrates and Phosphate, results were 33 and 0.84 respectively. Theres nothing dead in my tank and all other params are on point. I can't get my head around those numbers, nitrates are higher after a 75% water change, what the heck!!

 

[Dburr1014]

I have Rowaphos in there too!

Here's something that is making my head hurt this morning...Yesterday I took myself off to my LFS to get 50 Ltrs of fresh salt water and some Mysis shrimp, carried out a 75% water change and fed with the Mysis. This morning I tested the Nitrates and Phosphate, results were 33 and 0.84 respectively. Theres nothing dead in my tank and all other params are on point. I can't get my head around those numbers, nitrates are higher after a 75% water change, what the heck!!

Did the LFS make the rodi? Or was it salt water already made?
Maybe check the source first next time.
Maybe you should make your own water. This way you have control over it.

 

[Goodersgold]

Did the LFS make the rodi? Or was it salt water already made?
Maybe check the source first next time.
Maybe you should make your own water. This way you have control over it.

Yes, agree with that, one of the first things I did during my initial investigation 4 months ago was to check the source water. Each time I check, I get consistent low numbers from them.

They make their own RODI and make the salt from this

 

[JayFish4004]

Yes, agree with that, one of the first things I did during my initial investigation 4 months ago was to check the source water. Each time I check, I get consistent low numbers from them.

They make their own RODI and make the salt from this

Coming back to report on this for anyone interested. Obviously a traumatic experience but made it through. Ended up losing the 3 headed green torch and 3 headed purple torch, along with 2 hammers and 2 acans.

Frogspawn looked grim but ended up recovering, gorgonians unfazed as usual, birdsnest and duncan also relatively unfazed. Thankfully never lost a fish and they’re all still with us today and doing well.

5 months later I now add rowaphos to my tank every 3 weeks, and I have added a couple hammers, a torch, another birdsnest and some monti’s.

The tank will be 2 years old in May.

 

[Lavey29]

Coming back to report on this for anyone interested. Obviously a traumatic experience but made it through. Ended up losing the 3 headed green torch and 3 headed purple torch, along with 2 hammers and 2 acans.

Frogspawn looked grim but ended up recovering, gorgonians unfazed as usual, birdsnest and duncan also relatively unfazed. Thankfully never lost a fish and they’re all still with us today and doing well.

5 months later I now add phosguard to my tank every 3 weeks, and I have added a couple hammers, a torch, another birdsnest and some monti’s.

The tank will be 2 years old in May.

Congrats on the recovery. We all have been through similar too.

 

[JayFish4004]

Congrats on the recovery. We all have been through similar too.

Thanks! It hurt like hell but feel like Im better for it now

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks! It hurt like hell but feel like Im better for it now

Yea I lost my euphyllia too but not at 2 years tank is booming

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Coming back to report on this for anyone interested. Obviously a traumatic experience but made it through. Ended up losing the 3 headed green torch and 3 headed purple torch, along with 2 hammers and 2 acans.

Frogspawn looked grim but ended up recovering, gorgonians unfazed as usual, birdsnest and duncan also relatively unfazed. Thankfully never lost a fish and they’re all still with us today and doing well.

5 months later I now add rowaphos to my tank every 3 weeks, and I have added a couple hammers, a torch, another birdsnest and some monti’s.

The tank will be 2 years old in May.

Does the coral croucher prefer the frog to the SPS? He's a cutie!
Beautiful tank

 

[JayFish4004]

Does the coral croucher prefer the frog to the SPS? He's a cutie!
Beautiful tank

He’s a citron goby and yep sitting on the frogspawn is his favorite perch