Help with Acros and pests?

Neuratox · Nov 23, 2020

I've also posted this in general as I'm trying to find a solution but not getting any leads. I'm looking for any insights that you can provide:

I really need some help here. I'm watching many of my acros die a little more every day.
I tested parameters again today:
Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0 I have some algae so I'm not super surprised that they're all at 0, but it the levels of algae are very minimal.
pH: 7.8, temp: 78F, Salinity: 1.026

Using Hanna checkers:
Alk 7.4, Calcium: 468ppm, phos: 0.16

The phos is WAY too high and would explain why I clean my glass every other day, however, I'm not familiar with high phos killing acros specifically.

I should be clear - the acros are dying from the edge, and only some of them. I broke off two pieces and have attached images from the dissection scope.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a better scope right now. I've attached a file of what appear to be eggs. I'm not seeing the traditional redbugs, but I am seeing A LOT of translucent globular shaped things that move VERY fast across the surface of the acro. They do appear to be flat, but I don't know if I've ever seen flatworms move this fast. They are so small that Even zoomed in the most I could on the scope, then 2x with the phone, and digitially zoomed I cannot show them, but that is partly because of them being transparent.

I know that this isn't a lot to go off of. At this point I'm thinking I should treat for redbugs and flatworms simultaneously. I think the browning out is perhaps a function of high phosphates. I'll be checking my RODI water tomorrow before to make sure its not unusually high in phos.

Again, any thoughts are HIGHLY appreciated.

Neuratox · Nov 23, 2020

Neuratox said:
I've also posted this in general as I'm trying to find a solution but not getting any leads. I'm looking for any insights that you can provide:

I really need some help here. I'm watching many of my acros die a little more every day.
I tested parameters again today:
Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0 I have some algae so I'm not super surprised that they're all at 0, but it the levels of algae are very minimal.
pH: 7.8, temp: 78F, Salinity: 1.026

Using Hanna checkers:
Alk 7.4, Calcium: 468ppm, phos: 0.16

The phos is WAY too high and would explain why I clean my glass every other day, however, I'm not familiar with high phos killing acros specifically.

I should be clear - the acros are dying from the edge, and only some of them. I broke off two pieces and have attached images from the dissection scope.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a better scope right now. I've attached a file of what appear to be eggs. I'm not seeing the traditional redbugs, but I am seeing A LOT of translucent globular shaped things that move VERY fast across the surface of the acro. They do appear to be flat, but I don't know if I've ever seen flatworms move this fast. They are so small that Even zoomed in the most I could on the scope, then 2x with the phone, and digitially zoomed I cannot show them, but that is partly because of them being transparent.

I know that this isn't a lot to go off of. At this point I'm thinking I should treat for redbugs and flatworms simultaneously. I think the browning out is perhaps a function of high phosphates. I'll be checking my RODI water tomorrow before to make sure its not unusually high in phos.

Again, any thoughts are HIGHLY appreciated.

Also, I don't know if this is related, but one of the affected acros has these white dots on it most of the day that I can't seem to blow away, but still wave in the current - they're not polyps (too small and clustered). In the early morning they're not there.

Neuratox · Nov 24, 2020

Ok, so this is a crap image and I'll take some to the lab tomorrow and use one of the better scope and get a digital image, however... I was able to do some investigating today. I've looked at the same acro morph (?) that is placed in two different spots in the tank, only about 9" apart, but still. One is doing well, the other is showing beaching/tissue loss around the base. When examining these I have found that there are some sort of invertebrate on the ones showing tissue loss, and that they are only in the areas where this loss is occurring - they are not found in healthier areas of the acro. Furthermore, the healthy acro, that is a separate colony, but the exact same type does not have these at the tips - I unfortunately have no way of obtaining a sample from the base. I suspect that these creatures are either 1) causing the damage, or 2) taking up residence in the area where the loss is occurring and scavenging rather than attacking.

Again, I will try to obtain some high quality, high magnification pictures this week, but to describe these inverts I would say that they have what appears to be a spade shaped shield along the dorsal side that appears to be larger than the main body of the organism of which it covers. They seem to be moving through the mucus of the acro with great ease and speed and don't appear to be capable of swimming, when detached from the mucus and suspended in Phosphate Buffered Saline solution they simply float. They are brown (not black or red) - they appear to be the same color of the tissue - unfortunately these corals are fairly brown due to insufficient lighting in that spot in the tank.

I do not believe that these are red bugs or black bugs. The reason that I say is because when I harass them by exposing them to high light or prodding/pulling at the mucus they retreat within the polyp's housing. When they do this at least 20 of them are capable of comfortably fitting in this area. From the images I've seen they are many times smaller than the aforementioned red/black bugs.

Will report when images are obtained. In insights based on this additional information would be excellent!

RVA REEF · Nov 24, 2020

cant help yet, the first picture isnt very good, you can always dip the acros and see what comes off and then take pics of what falls off. Post some pictures of the colony too

Neuratox · Nov 25, 2020

Picture of the eggs on the underside of a portion that was plating out from the rockwork. Having a hard time finding a piece with the adults on it. They're further up on the encrused portion that I have no way of breaking off at this point. Will post when accessible. This is taken at 40x and then digitally zoomed a little, program didn't provide a percentage.

vetteguy53081 · Nov 25, 2020

Looks like eggs of an acro eating flatworm(s). But the white dots may be white bugs rather than bite marks.
Best bet is to dip the acro and see what comes off of it. Place container on a piece of black paper or something black and shine flashlight to determine what has come off acro. Black surface will make it more visible.

Neuratox · Nov 25, 2020

I'll absolutely try this tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion. If it's aefw can I treat with flatworm exit or whatever it is called?

Neuratox · Nov 28, 2020

Neuratox said:
Picture of the eggs on the underside of a portion that was plating out from the rockwork. Having a hard time finding a piece with the adults on it. They're further up on the encrused portion that I have no way of breaking off at this point. Will post when accessible. This is taken at 40x and then digitally zoomed a little, program didn't provide a percentage.

It looks like I've got no other choice than a high powered scope. I used bayers to treat a fragment that was visually inspected and confirmed to have the pest on it. After treatment there was no sign of it anywhere in the tiny glass dish that I was using. I did make sure to use a black surface underneath as suggested as well as without. These things were ALL OVER the acro before dipping. I'm not sure if I'm struggling because they're so tiny or some other reason - I can't imagine that the bayers is causing the cuticle to break down within minutes and essentially melting them. In either case there are no flatworms, nothing the size of redbugs. The way that they are losing flesh is similar to the pictures that I'm finding for monitpora eating nudibranchs, but there DEFINITELY aren't any of those present. I can say that the ones that I'm finding seem to be incorporating the algae into themselves as they perfectly match the color of the coral. Unfortunately, I can only say this about one, and it is very brown.

Here are pictures of the two frags easiest to capture a photo of. The brown was where I broke of a colony and moved it due to light issues, this part remained and was obviously beginning to grow. The pink one was a frag that has been in the tank about the same amount of time (9 months or so) and was finally starting to encrust.

I know this tank isn't perfect and there are a lot of things wrong with it, which is why I've upgraded another tank and had hoped to begin the transfer process. All of that is on hold until this issue is resolved.

Devin6871 · Nov 28, 2020

Do you have clown gobies in your tank?

john90009 · Nov 28, 2020

Are those all white bugs?

Neuratox · Nov 28, 2020

No no clown gobies.

As for the white spots I don't think that they are. Those same spots are not on the other coral that is doing the exact same thing. I've tried to blow them off with a turkey baster and they don't get dispersed