Help with clownfish

[Matt_]

Hello,

I am sort of new to this. I had a saltwater tank a few years ago but had to move so I sold it all. During that time it was an easy experience of just adding a few fish and changing the water. Never had any issues. So I didn't think about any quarantine procedures this time.

About 4 weeks ago decided to get a tank again. Got a 20 gallon long to see if I stick with this for a while. Then upgrade to a big tank. Bought saltwater from LFS and got it running. A few days later added fritz turbo start and 2 clownfish. On Monday I noticed what appeared to be white stringy poop. I believed it to be internal parasites and read prazipro would do the trick. I added prazipro Monday evening. Things seemed ok Tuesday. On Wednesday I noticed the smaller clown breathing rapidly and died later on Wednesday.

Yesterday I noticed the white stringy thing on the remaining clown. From what I read after 72 hours prazipro breaks down. So I dosed it again. I noticed shortly after my cleaner shrimp seemed to be weak and inactive. I was nervous I hurt him so I did a 30% water change to try and bring things back in check. He is doing good today. However the clown seems slow and sometimes tilted.

I don't have any extra tanks or equipment so I was hoping to treat in the main tank. Not sure if I need to get another tank and treat with copper? I also don't have my own RODI yet but have some more water on hand.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only and inverts
Aquarium water volume 20 gallon
Filtration type aquaclear 110 HOB
Lighting room lighting
How long has the aquarium been established? 3-4 weeks

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature 78f
Salinity / specific gravity 35 ppm
Ammonia nothing on alert badge

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Yes
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Are the affected fish still feeding not much but a little

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello,

I am sort of new to this. I had a saltwater tank a few years ago but had to move so I sold it all. During that time it was an easy experience of just adding a few fish and changing the water. Never had any issues. So I didn't think about any quarantine procedures this time.

About 4 weeks ago decided to get a tank again. Got a 20 gallon long to see if I stick with this for a while. Then upgrade to a big tank. Bought saltwater from LFS and got it running. A few days later added fritz turbo start and 2 clownfish. On Monday I noticed what appeared to be white stringy poop. I believed it to be internal parasites and read prazipro would do the trick. I added prazipro Monday evening. Things seemed ok Tuesday. On Wednesday I noticed the smaller clown breathing rapidly and died later on Wednesday.

Yesterday I noticed the white stringy thing on the remaining clown. From what I read after 72 hours prazipro breaks down. So I dosed it again. I noticed shortly after my cleaner shrimp seemed to be weak and inactive. I was nervous I hurt him so I did a 30% water change to try and bring things back in check. He is doing good today. However the clown seems slow and sometimes tilted.

I don't have any extra tanks or equipment so I was hoping to treat in the main tank. Not sure if I need to get another tank and treat with copper? I also don't have my own RODI yet but have some more water on hand.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only and inverts
Aquarium water volume 20 gallon
Filtration type aquaclear 110 HOB
Lighting room lighting
How long has the aquarium been established? 3-4 weeks

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature 78f
Salinity / specific gravity 35 ppm
Ammonia nothing on alert badge

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Yes
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Are the affected fish still feeding not much but a little

While this appearance often suggests internal issues, it is also mimiced when you are feeding mysis shrimp, brine shrimp or both. If so, this may be what you are seeing.
Add food such as Marine cuisine, LRS fish frenzy and small plankton which are healthy and will change poop colr. Hold mmysis for about 3-5 days to allow poop to change color and confirm for you

 

[Matt_]

While this appearance often suggests internal issues, it is also mimiced when you are feeding mysis shrimp, brine shrimp or both. If so, this may be what you are seeing.
Add food such as Marine cuisine, LRS fish frenzy and small plankton which are healthy and will change poop colr. Hold mmysis for about 3-5 days to allow poop to change color and confirm for you

Any idea if flake food could do that to?

I am currently feeding tetramarine saltwater flakes.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Prazipro only treats one, fairly rare cause of stringy feces. General Cure is a better choice (but you can't dose that with invertebrates present). GC contains prazi and metronidazole. The rapid breathing could be a separate issue, or it could be a sign of a systemic disease. Here is some information on mucus feces:

Excess mucus in fish feces: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often
hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for
this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to
diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no
serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in
diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces
with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to
be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of
these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral
antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they
are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in
fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently
cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent
treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food.
However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be
dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not
“drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in
dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of
mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well
researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as
one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure
for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not
do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas
already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW
magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it
as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no
benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct.
Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for
fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has
marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in
fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation
resolved.

Jay

 

[Matt_]

Prazipro only treats one, fairly rare cause of stringy feces. General Cure is a better choice (but you can't dose that with invertebrates present). GC contains prazi and metronidazole. The rapid breathing could be a separate issue, or it could be a sign of a systemic disease. Here is some information on mucus feces:

Excess mucus in fish feces: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often
hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for
this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to
diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no
serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in
diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces
with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to
be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of
these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral
antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they
are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in
fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently
cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent
treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food.
However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be
dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not
“drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in
dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of
mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well
researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as
one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure
for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not
do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas
already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW
magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it
as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no
benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct.
Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for
fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has
marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in
fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation
resolved.

Jay

Does general cure cause any long term issues with biological filtration or leaching later? If I got a small tank for shrimp and the few snails, moved some of the current rock with them that should give them a stable place to live while using general cure in the main tank?

Once the main tank and clown are healthy then I could move them back, bleach the rock, allow to recure and readd too tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does general cure cause any long term issues with biological filtration or leaching later? If I got a small tank for shrimp and the few snails, moved some of the current rock with them that should give them a stable place to live while using general cure in the main tank?

Once the main tank and clown are healthy then I could move them back, bleach the rock, allow to recure and readd too tank?

No - GC breaks down pretty quickly (72 hours or so). You can also run carbon just to be safe. You could do that rock change.
However, this issue could be coccidea, and there is no cure for that..I don’t want to get your hopes up too much.

Jay

 

[Matt_]

No - GC breaks down pretty quickly (72 hours or so). You can also run carbon just to be safe. You could do that rock change.
However, this issue could be coccidea, and there is no cure for that..I don’t want to get your hopes up too much.

Jay

Thank you for the help so far.

My initial throught was to move inverts to a separate tank then dose the main tank with GC. My reasoning was to minimize stress on the sick fish and so that if the GC works then the main tank would also be back to healthy.

However, would it be better to move the clown to it's own tank using some display water to minimize parameter changes? This would allow the use of copper too.

Any reason you would say to do it one way or the other?

If GC helps should i do a second dose at some point?

 

[Dreminon]

Welcome to the Salty Crew

I would move the clown to another tank before dosing not the inverts, On the off chance any general cure was left in tank or absorbed by the rocks and sand would kill them when reintroduced. plus like you said will be able to treat with copper if needed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the help so far.

My initial throught was to move inverts to a separate tank then dose the main tank with GC. My reasoning was to minimize stress on the sick fish and so that if the GC works then the main tank would also be back to healthy.

However, would it be better to move the clown to it's own tank using some display water to minimize parameter changes? This would allow the use of copper too.

Any reason you would say to do it one way or the other?

If GC helps should i do a second dose at some point?

You can move or leave the clowns - but if you leave them, you should run carbon for sure. You're correct though, moving the clowns allows the use of copper.

You should run two doses of GC. Normally, I say 8 days apart, but in this case, you are using it for the Metronidazole portion of it, so you would dose it 48 hours apart.

Jay

 

[Matt_]

You can move or leave the clowns - but if you leave them, you should run carbon for sure. You're correct though, moving the clowns allows the use of copper.

You should run two doses of GC. Normally, I say 8 days apart, but in this case, you are using it for the Metronidazole portion of it, so you would soe it 48 hours apart.

Jay

If I move the clown to a separate qt tank, after the second does of GC should I do anything else for treatment or just observe?

Also, I assume I would do to go through a fallow period on the main tank. How long should that last?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If I move the clown to a separate qt tank, after the second does of GC should I do anything else for treatment or just observe?

Also, I assume I would do to go through a fallow period on the main tank. How long should that last?

I generally wait a minimum of 45 days as a fallow period. I might go as short as 30 if the fish are not in a stable system and moving them out becomes the lesser of two evils.
Jay

 

[Matt_]

I generally wait a minimum of 45 days as a fallow period. I might go as short as 30 if the fish are not in a stable system and moving them out becomes the lesser of two evils.
Jay

Thanks for the help! Setup in a separate 10 gallon today. API general cure dosed. Will update back on here.

May get another pipe fitting. That's just what I had available. Also going to be sanitizing and splitting up my buckets to avoid contamination.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the help! Setup in a separate 10 gallon today. API general cure dosed. Will update back on here.

May get another pipe fitting. That's just what I had available. Also going to be sanitizing and splitting up my buckets to avoid contamination.

Just be sure to manage the ammonia in the new tank!

Jay

 

[Matt_]

Wanted to post an update. Second dose of general cure was given last night. Today I see the "string" again. Should I be seeing this after the second dose?

Doesn't seem to interested in food at this point.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Wanted to post an update. Second dose of general cure was given last night. Today I see the "string" again. Should I be seeing this after the second dose?

Doesn't seem to interested in food at this point.

No, it should be eating. What are you feeding it?
Jay

 

[Matt_]

No, it should be eating. What are you feeding it?
Jay

Tetramarine saltwater flakes. Both of the fish had been eating it when we first got them.

Do you think I need a different food?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tetramarine saltwater flakes. Both of the fish had been eating it when we first got them.

Do you think I need a different food?

Flake food isn't the most palatable to fish, but if it was eating that, and now is not, that points to an issue other than the food itself.

Do you have access to Metroplex? It can be dosed more often and is just metronidazole.

I should mention again, this could be coccidia, and there isn't any treatment available for that in fish....

Jay

 

[Matt_]

Flake food isn't the most palatable to fish, but if it was eating that, and now is not, that points to an issue other than the food itself.

Do you have access to Metroplex? It can be dosed more often and is just metronidazole.

I should mention again, this could be coccidia, and there isn't any treatment available for that in fish....

Jay

I don't have any on hand. I may be able to get some after work today.

He is looking very weak at the bottom of the tank this morning. I'm not sure he is going to make it.

If it is coccidia, would the 45 day fallow period be sufficient to eliminate it from the main tank that still has a shrimp and snails?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't have any on hand. I may be able to get some after work today.

He is looking very weak at the bottom of the tank this morning. I'm not sure he is going to make it.

If it is coccidia, would the 45 day fallow period be sufficient to eliminate it from the main tank that still has a shrimp and snails?

Coccidia is an internal parasite, while I don't know if that is the issue here, there is also no data as to what the fallow period might be for that issue. My guess is that 45 days should work, but I really don't know....sorry!

Jay