Help with dino id

[kstripp]

Hi everyone,

I have been having a red slime / carpet battle for quite some time now, and I think I need help.

Background: looking back at my logs, about a year ago I had an RO/DI issue that resulted in either very high or very low nitrates (turned out I was measuring the nitrates in the RO... not in the tank). After finding the problem and fixing it, I found my nitrates bottomed out very quickly due to how much NO3PO4X I had been dosing while they (looked / were) high. Note that I did get the NO3 levels back under control and generally stayed around 0.25 to 2 since then.

Fast forward, and I have been battling a red slime that is both stringy and carpet like. So far it has been mostly unresponsive to microbacter 7, microbacter clean, and vibrant (although it seemed microbacter clean was making some progress for a while, but then that stalled out). I tried chemiclean, with no effect whatsoever.

It also seemed to stress out my cucumber, who went in to hiding in the rockwork for several weeks. It re-appeared a couple weeks ago after eviscerating. I moved it to my QT tank and it seems still be surviving, though still not looking good.

Since cyano treatments seem to not be working, I'm guessing this is dinos. I was able to get a few photos through a microscope, but honestly most of the ID photos I've seen from links on the Dinoflagellates thread look pretty similar to me. I also have a few in tank photos to show what it looks like to the eye.

I'm also somewhat puzzled by the nutrients discussion here: there are warnings all over the place about not letting nitrate and phosphate bottom out, but my phosphates are pretty high and nitrates have been stable recently around 2ppm.

Current parameters:
Salinity: 35ppt
NO3: 5ppm
PO4: 1.6ppm
Alk: 8.1 dkh
Ca: 460 ppm
Mg: 1540 ppm

Any ID assistance or suggestions moving forward would be greatly appreciated

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks more like cyano. Treated similarly, siphon as much as you can, blow rest loose with turkey baster and net or siphon remaining particles. Reduce white light intensity or turn off white lights for 5-7 days and add 1.5ml of liquid bacteria per 10 gallons daily for a CT week. Add hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons and once controlled, add snails such as astrea, margarita, trochus and nerite

 

[kstripp]

Looks more like cyano.

Thanks vetteguy! So it is likely cyano even though it didn't respond at all to chemiclean? I thought that was an indicator that it was likely dinos.

These yellow guys also looked a lot like some of the images shown in the dino identification guide... I just couldn't figure out which one

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

I'm not trying to contradict... just trying to understand what I'm dealing with.
Or are you suggesting that while there may be dinos present, they aren't the (primary) problem?

If it is in fact cyano, does that mean I should resume carbon dosing? That is the tool I have been able to use to keep nitrates and phosphates under control, and since stopping them a week or so ago, they have already started rising significantly.

Either way, I'll adjust my light schedule to remove whites for a while, and keep dosing bacteria - maybe I'll try both vibrant and microbacter7 together (different days? combine?) since they are what I have on hand at the moment.

1.5ml of liquid bacteria per 10 gallons daily for a CT week

On that note though... what is "CT" in this context?

Thanks for your help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks vetteguy! So it is likely cyano even though it didn't respond at all to chemiclean? I thought that was an indicator that it was likely dinos.

These yellow guys also looked a lot like some of the images shown in the dino identification guide... I just couldn't figure out which one

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

I'm not trying to contradict... just trying to understand what I'm dealing with.
Or are you suggesting that while there may be dinos present, they aren't the (primary) problem?

If it is in fact cyano, does that mean I should resume carbon dosing? That is the tool I have been able to use to keep nitrates and phosphates under control, and since stopping them a week or so ago, they have already started rising significantly.

Either way, I'll adjust my light schedule to remove whites for a while, and keep dosing bacteria - maybe I'll try both vibrant and microbacter7 together (different days? combine?) since they are what I have on hand at the moment.

On that note though... what is "CT" in this context?

Thanks for your help.

Looks like amphi Dino but pics state otherwise

 

[kstripp]

Looks like amphi Dino but pics state otherwise

I'm confused now - is it the pictures of the tank that look like cyano, but the pictures through the microscope look like amphi?

The microscope sample was collected from the red slime that was on top of the rocks from the area in this photo:

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm confused now - is it the pictures of the tank that look like cyano, but the pictures through the microscope look like amphi?

The microscope sample was collected from the red slime that was on top of the rocks from the area in this photo:

Im sticking with Cyano

 

[ggNoRe]

I'm no professional but just came out of a similar situation. I would guess it's a mixture of gha, cyano, and dinos. You can see my build thread for more details if you're interested. My recommendation would be to manually remove as much as possible by syphoning into a filter sock and scrubbing rocks and using a ton of filter floss. Also your phosphates seem crazy high if the really are 1.6 should be in the .05-.1 range if I'm not mistaken. After cleaning out what you can do a 3 day blackout while dosing a competitive bacteria and Dr Tims Waste Away. Also get a UV if possible. Best of luck!

 

[taricha]

It's both cyano and dinos (large cell amphidinium).
More accurately cyano - because vetteguy is right. That color says cyano is the dominant organism. The cyano is spirulina, btw.

 

[kstripp]

Thank you everyone! I think I have a better understanding of what is going on now.

Also your phosphates seem crazy high if the really are 1.6 should be in the .05-.1 range if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, they are... turns out the red sea phosphate kit was off by at least an order of magnitude (and consistent across multiple reagent batches). ICP test showed a number in the same ballpark as hanna (after after a 3:1 dilution)... so that is definitely something to fix. I had it down to about 0.57 after discovering this, but then I stopped carbon dosing thinking dinos and it popped back up. I guess I'll be bringing that back, as well as GFO again.