Help with my dinos lolol thanks

[jonny4ever]

Current parameters 25 nitrate, 0.20 phospahte.

So I was getting lots of hair algae (didn't have hannah phospahte checker so it always read zero till i bought it) and my nitrate would hoover around 15. To combat it I did bigger water changes for 2/3 weeks. My nitrates dropped to 0 and phosphate was at 0.35 so that introduced dinos. I've made my water "dirty" again but it still keeps coming back and gha wont grow. Its a 40 breeder with a small tunze 9001 skimmer and a hob seachem tidal filter. I was siphoning some of the dinos out and passing the water through a filter and putting the cleanest water back in. Any other things that may help? I've lowered the amount of light the tank gets as well it has 2 ai primes, it only gets worse even with dirty water. I was thinking of making a refugium out of an aquaclear 70 i have laying around, i also have a 20g nano which was my first tank but its a total loss. SO much dino in that one its insane, has 3 fish and i feed a lot but its always 0 nitrate and like .30 phospate. If high nutrients is supposed to keep dinos at bay why dont they stop spreading in my 40 breeder? My nems have gotten super super stressed ever since it happened, they've all shrunk like crazy and spread through out the tank. LITERALLY the same thing they did in my 20g....... the 20g is like 18 months old the 40 breeder is about to be a year old. Please i would like help just dont suggest expensive things as its pointless since i wont be able to acquire anything. MY BEST BET FOR NEW EQUIPMENT IS TURNING AN AQUACLEAR INTO A REFUGIUM

 

[fushi]

Current parameters 25 nitrate, 0.20 phospahte.

So I was getting lots ……..

I believe it’s large nutrient imbalance that causes dinos and a lot of other problems in the tank, not just low nutrients.

When your syphoning out the dinos and putting the water back into the tank make sure you run the water through a 5 micron filter sock as most dinos you will deal with are 10 microns and larger.

Duda Diesel has some cheap ones
https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+filter++bag&i=filterbags

To treat dinos you must identify the type of dinos you have as they are all treated differently.

I recommend joining

Mack's reef...Dinoflagellates support group!

It has everything you need to know about beating dinos with full guides in the "files" section and everyone on the group is super helpful.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/259...5055548764&notif_t=group_highlights&ref=notif

 

[TriggersAmuck]

Neither .3 phos nor 0.0000 nitrate are desirable. I am facing a slightly similar situation in that I let my Nitrates bottom out to being undetectable, and my phosphates were 0.13/0.14, just a little high. In my instance I was feeding very sparsely, doing weekly sizable (80%) water changes, and had added some Marinepure biomedia to my Aquaclear HOB. When the Dinos struck and the corals and 'nems looked like leftovers, I instantly removed the extra biomedia (I have plenty of rock in the tank after all), started feeing daily with meaty but not phos laden foods (no pellets or reefroids for a bit), and I slowly raised the temperature to 82° (seeing this had empirically worked for a few others). (Do your own research in this regard). Also I added a Chemiclean Elite bag to the HOB to try to bring the phos's down a little bit. Stopped water changes for a few weeks to let Nitrates accumulate a bit. Everything is looking healthier, and while the Dinos are not 100% eradicated they are diminished. Also doing manual (almost daily) manual blasting of the Dinos and subsequent rising of sponge material.

As my tank is a nano without a sump, I'm about to add an OASE canister filter connected to a 15 watt HOB UV sterilizer by Aqua. And I bought some pharmacy grade sodium nitrate in case I need to dose more than heavy feeding.

 

[saltyhog]

@jonny4ever , absent/low nutrients are not the "cause" necessarily for dinos. That situation just gives them a tremendous competitive advantage. Lack of biodiversity is the core problem IMO.

Where your nutrients are now is not bad. I like to aim for NO3 of 5-10 and PO4 of 0.06-0.12. Stability is important. Have you identified what type of dino you have? That's somewhat important in forming a plan to fight them.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I have had dino's wipe out my tank. I finally started dosing Trisodium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate to keep a minimal level of fertilizer in my tank. Has worked miracles in the short period of time once I was able to beat the initial onslaught back.

 

[jonny4ever]

Neither .3 phos nor 0.0000 nitrate are desirable. I am facing a slightly similar situation in that I let my Nitrates bottom out to being undetectable, and my phosphates were 0.13/0.14, just a little high. In my instance I was feeding very sparsely, doing weekly sizable (80%) water changes, and had added some Marinepure biomedia to my Aquaclear HOB. When the Dinos struck and the corals and 'nems looked like leftovers, I instantly removed the extra biomedia (I have plenty of rock in the tank after all), started feeing daily with meaty but not phos laden foods (no pellets or reefroids for a bit), and I slowly raised the temperature to 82° (seeing this had empirically worked for a few others). (Do your own research in this regard). Also I added a Chemiclean Elite bag to the HOB to try to bring the phos's down a little bit. Stopped water changes for a few weeks to let Nitrates accumulate a bit. Everything is looking healthier, and while the Dinos are not 100% eradicated they are diminished. Also doing manual (almost daily) manual blasting of the Dinos and subsequent rising of sponge material.

As my tank is a nano without a sump, I'm about to add an OASE canister filter connected to a 15 watt HOB UV sterilizer by Aqua. And I bought some pharmacy grade sodium nitrate in case I need to dose more than heavy feeding.

So far i've added a diy refugium and been letting the diatoms on my glass grow. It's been helping a lot, I think ill end up trying one of those cheap green killing machines from petco to eradicate to problem within the next week or 2. Im seeing bits of gha and diatoms as stated so maybe im getting other algae an bacteria to slowly outcompete dinos? What should i add to the refugium to help with that? Some trigger pods or whatever

 

[saltyhog]

So far i've added a diy refugium and been letting the diatoms on my glass grow. It's been helping a lot, I think ill end up trying one of those cheap green killing machines from petco to eradicate to problem within the next week or 2. Im seeing bits of gha and diatoms as stated so maybe im getting other algae an bacteria to slowly outcompete dinos? What should i add to the refugium to help with that? Some trigger pods or whatever

What type of dinos do you have? UV is not effective against all types of dinos and usually the Green Killing Machine is not effective against any dinos. Get a picture (or better yet a video) of your dinos under the microscope and then you can make a good decision on how to proceed with the battle.

 

[jonny4ever]

What type of dinos do you have? UV is not effective against all types of dinos and usually the Green Killing Machine is not effective against any dinos. Get a picture (or better yet a video) of your dinos under the microscope and then you can make a good decision on how to proceed with the battle.

From what I’ve seen on reef 2 reef many people with Dino’s have had success using a 9watt green killing machine from Petco In small tanks. I have a sumpless 40, and even with the hob gear I’m sure I’m under 40g of water and the uv is rated for 50. Also I don’t have access to a microscope right now so I’m just treating it like it’s the worst case scenario. They do some to disappear at night and come back in the day though so it’s why I think a uv for my tank would help

 

[saltyhog]

I've also encountered many who used them without success....and almost no failures with other units. Also the ratings the manufacturers use is for completely different applications and does not pertain to dinos. For 40 gallons it's borderline for dinos even if it were an effective unit. Just sharing my experiences with these.

The dinos going away at night also doesn't correlate with UV effectiveness. Some dinos migrate down in to the sand bed...not the water column. What does it look like in your tank? Just on the sand or also on the rock? Brown dusting on the sand or brown stringy mucous on the rocks/coral/sand?

 

[jonny4ever]

I've also encountered many who used them without success....and almost no failures with other units. Also the ratings the manufacturers use is for completely different applications and does not pertain to dinos. For 40 gallons it's borderline for dinos even if it were an effective unit. Just sharing my experiences with these.

The dinos going away at night also doesn't correlate with UV effectiveness. Some dinos migrate down in to the sand bed...not the water column. What does it look like in your tank? Just on the sand or also on the rock? Brown dusting on the sand or brown stringy mucous on the rocks/coral/sand?

I've also encountered many who used them without success....and almost no failures with other units. Also the ratings the manufacturers use is for completely different applications and does not pertain to dinos. For 40 gallons it's borderline for dinos even if it were an effective unit. Just sharing my experiences with these.

The dinos going away at night also doesn't correlate with UV effectiveness. Some dinos migrate down in to the sand bed...not the water column. What does it look like in your tank? Just on the sand or also on the rock? Brown dusting on the sand or brown stringy mucous on the rocks/coral/sand?

All the above

 

[saltyhog]

On the sand, brown dusting? On the rock stringy mucous? If so there's a good possibility you have more than one type of dino. It would really be best to get a microscopic view to know for sure what you're up against before possibly spending money on something that's not going to help. Make sense?

 

[jonny4ever]

On the sand, brown dusting? On the rock stringy mucous? If so there's a good possibility you have more than one type of dino. It would really be best to get a microscopic view to know for sure what you're up against before possibly spending money on something that's not going to help. Make sense?

Yeah. But I’ll need to buy a microscope, I’m just attacking it like it’s all Dino’s. Letting diatoms grow on my glass, haven’t dosed silica yet as I don’t see a need. My nutrients went too high while I stopped water changes so I added a refugium and it seems to be lowering the nutrients to a good amount so I could keep on without changing the water for a while it seems. So my plan is to just siphon out what I can and pass it through a 180 micron filter or filter pad and dump the water back In the tank. Was thinking a uv would be the last thing I need, can’t really think of any other way to attack it other than seeding the refugium maybe?

 

[saltyhog]

Yeah. But I’ll need to buy a microscope, I’m just attacking it like it’s all Dino’s. Letting diatoms grow on my glass, haven’t dosed silica yet as I don’t see a need. My nutrients went too high while I stopped water changes so I added a refugium and it seems to be lowering the nutrients to a good amount so I could keep on without changing the water for a while it seems. So my plan is to just siphon out what I can and pass it through a 180 micron filter or filter pad and dump the water back In the tank. Was thinking a uv would be the last thing I need, can’t really think of any other way to attack it other than seeding the refugium maybe?

You will need a 5 micron filter to actually remove any with manual siphoning. I wouldn't expect much help but it won't hurt anything to try. Most people just cant do it enough to keep ahead of their reproductive rate.

Go ahead and dose silicates even though you have some diatoms....it will help over time. If it's large cell amphidinium (and there's a good chance one of your dinos is) UV won't help a bit. Small cell amphidinium....maybe, maybe not. Keep your NO3 up....I shoot for 5-10 but higher is ok. Keep your PO4 0.06-0.12. Don't worry if you get green algae.....it's good competition for the dinos. Post a video when you get a microscope (or if you live close to the central US, send me a sample).

If the mucous making dino is on the rocks it could be ostreopsis/coolia and UV will help these...a lot and quickly!

Get that microscopic ID and we can help you!

 

[jonny4ever]

You will need a 5 micron filter to actually remove any with manual siphoning. I wouldn't expect much help but it won't hurt anything to try. Most people just cant do it enough to keep ahead of their reproductive rate.

Go ahead and dose silicates even though you have some diatoms....it will help over time. If it's large cell amphidinium (and there's a good chance one of your dinos is) UV won't help a bit. Small cell amphidinium....maybe, maybe not. Keep your NO3 up....I shoot for 5-10 but higher is ok. Keep your PO4 0.06-0.12. Don't worry if you get green algae.....it's good competition for the dinos. Post a video when you get a microscope (or if you live close to the central US, send me a sample).

If the mucous making dino is on the rocks it could be ostreopsis/coolia and UV will help these...a lot and quickly!

Get that microscopic ID and we can help you!

Yeah I just called 8 of the nearest lfs’s to me and none have one, so for now I’ll just attack it like it’s all of them. I’ll see if I get a microscope sometime soon

 

[saltyhog]

Yeah I just called 8 of the nearest lfs’s to me and none have one, so for now I’ll just attack it like it’s all of them. I’ll see if I get a microscope sometime soon

The best place to get a scope is on Amazon. This is a good one.

 

[jonny4ever]

The best place to get a scope is on Amazon. This is a good one.

Yeah ima buy one soon. Also instead of the 9w green killing machine I’m going to get a coralife 9w turbo twist. It’s rated for 125g instead of the 50g the green killing machine is, hangs on the back instead of in tank as well but it’s double the price. Will be unnoticeable behind my seachem tidal. I’ve had a fox face for a while but I’ve always wanted a purple tang and every time I get one they get ick. So hopefully the uv will help aid in that and I’ll eventually trade in my fox face and buy a purple tang

 

[saltyhog]

Yeah ima buy one soon. Also instead of the 9w green killing machine I’m going to get a coralife 9w turbo twist. It’s rated for 125g instead of the 50g the green killing machine is, hangs on the back instead of in tank as well but it’s double the price. Will be unnoticeable behind my seachem tidal. I’ve had a fox face for a while but I’ve always wanted a purple tang and every time I get one they get ick. So hopefully the uv will help aid in that and I’ll eventually trade in my fox face and buy a purple tang

For flow through the UV get a pump that's about 100 gph for dinos. Don't go by the manufacturer's recommendation on pump sizing.

Don't expect UV to be a solution to your ich problem. Especially with a tang (who are very prone to it anyway.....especially when in a small tank).

 

[jonny4ever]

For flow through the UV get a pump that's about 100 gph for dinos. Don't go by the manufacturer's recommendation on pump sizing.

Don't expect UV to be a solution to your ich problem. Especially with a tang (who are very prone to it anyway.....especially when in a small tank).

So If the uv let’s me add my own pump I should? I have a 186gph one I believe lying around from an old biocube 14

 

[saltyhog]

So If the uv let’s me add my own pump I should? I have a 186gph one I believe lying around from an old biocube 14

Yes, don't get a UV that comes with it's own pump.....they are always too high of flow rate for dinos. 186 gph is way to much flow for UV on a 40 gallon tank. It should be around half that. However, we still don't know if your dinos will be sensitive to UV or not. The microscope is cheaper than a UV ;Smuggrin

 

[jonny4ever]

Yes, don't get a UV that comes with it's own pump.....they are always too high of flow rate for dinos. 186 gph is way to much flow for UV on a 40 gallon tank. It should be around half that. However, we still don't know if your dinos will be sensitive to UV or not. The microscope is cheaper than a UV ;Smuggrin

Okay thanks, yeah I’ll be ordering a microscope off Amazon this upcoming week. While I wait for that what are things I should do? My nitrates Hoover around 15ppm rn, the refugium does a good job at lowering them they were at 25 the before adding it. Will be getting new lights as well, I see some gha/diatoms growing but the Dino’s keep coming stronger if i don’t siphon them. Phosphate was at like .13 last time i checked a few days ago