Help with my reticulated puffer

coral_garage

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I purchased a reticulated puffer from my lfs a few weeks ago and looked pretty healthy and active in the store. I brought him home and he was fairly active the first week and ate everything out of my hand. He hasn't ate anything in the second week and seems pretty lazy and always stayed at the same corner of the tank. It's been the third week and still hasn't shown much interest when trying to feed him. I have noticed him to be a little more active lately. It's definitely not ick because the tank was treated with copper and he shows no visible spots. The other tank inhabitants are three eels that don't bother him. He looks overall healthy as you can see in the picture but it's been about 2 weeks that he hasn't shown interest in food. I have fed him silver sides and scallops in the past. I dozed the tank weekly with garlic and selcon. Any idea if this is normal behavior? Also any advice on what to get him to finally start chowing down again? I have to admit I have not tested the water parameters because this is my first fish only. I do 20% water changes every week. I will test water parameters tody
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sc50964

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What a beautiful puffer! Seeing it makes me want to get one too.

back to your question. I understand that he has been lethargic & not eating. Are there other unusual behavior like staying close to the top? Swimming in front of the power head? What are his tank mates? What’s the copper concentration in the tank? What brand of copper are you using? And do you have UV on as well?

since it’s a fish only, you only need to check salinity, ph, dKH, and ammonia.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Don’t add garlic or selcon to the tank itself, that just feeds the heterotrophic bacteria.
Can you post a video?
Flukes would be one possible diagnosis given the timeline. Eels are not affected by the same flukes as puffers are.
Jay
 
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coral_garage

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What a beautiful puffer! Seeing it makes me want to get one too.

back to your question. I understand that he has been lethargic & not eating. Are there other unusual behavior like staying close to the top? Swimming in front of the power head? What are his tank mates? What’s the copper concentration in the tank? What brand of copper are you using? And do you have UV on as well?

since it’s a fish only, you only need to check salinity, ph, dKH, and ammonia.
U see..this is why I love forums!! I should know better..I will get a uv asap. His tank mates have recently changed.but his has slightly improved. He used to be in one spot on the corner for over a week. Now he swims around a bit . And has changed to a different spot. I noticed he likes to stay near the heater (only thing I moved). Tank temp is 77. I currently house three eels and just him ..I doubt the eels are bothering him. They are juvies as well. He is about 6". I will soak the half clams today and try. I dosed copper w cupramine because he had ick which was present win the tank when I first got him. It's been weeks and no I haven't tested. He has no visible signs of anything. Just hasn't eaten in about two weeks. He swims away when trying to spot feed him. Will get a uv, will try clam shells soaked in garlic and selcon today and let u it's know.
 
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coral_garage

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Don’t add garlic or selcon to the tank itself, that just feeds the heterotrophic bacteria.
Can you post a video?
Flukes would be one possible diagnosis given the timeline. Eels are not affected by the same flukes as puffers are.
Jay
I didn't want to dose copper a second time..but I did dose medic by polyp lab and he did seem to perk up a bit..not sure if it was a coincidence. I ignorantly havn tested the waters.. curious what my nutient levels are. He does seem to perk up after a water change...again, not sure if it's a coincidence..if phos/nitrates are super high, I plan to run a second skimmer (have one lying around..why not .
 

sc50964

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U see..this is why I love forums!! I should know better..I will get a uv asap. His tank mates have recently changed.but his has slightly improved. He used to be in one spot on the corner for over a week. Now he swims around a bit . And has changed to a different spot. I noticed he likes to stay near the heater (only thing I moved). Tank temp is 77. I currently house three eels and just him ..I doubt the eels are bothering him. They are juvies as well. He is about 6". I will soak the half clams today and try. I dosed copper w cupramine because he had ick which was present win the tank when I first got him. It's been weeks and no I haven't tested. He has no visible signs of anything. Just hasn't eaten in about two weeks. He swims away when trying to spot feed him. Will get a uv, will try clam shells soaked in garlic and selcon today and let u it's know.
Forget the UV if your are using cupramine as it actually makes the copper more toxic.

how are you measuring the copper concentration? Hanna?

suggest to switch to coppersafe or copper power. Safer and more tolerable for a scaleless creature like puffer.

cupramine is likely the reason why your puffer isn’t feeling well.
 
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coral_garage

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Forget the UV if your are using cupramine as it actually makes the copper more toxic.

how are you measuring the copper concentration? Hanna?

suggest to switch to coppersafe or copper power. Safer and more tolerable for a scaleless creature like puffer.

cupramine is likely the reason why your puffer isn’t feeling well.
I'm not using copper ATM, I dosed the system once , when I first got the puffer because he showed signs of ich pretty quickly. It's been almost 3 weeks or more w/o copper. I used the recommended dosage for my tank. I've done plenty of water changes and added carbon since then, doubt there's any color left.
 

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I'm not using copper ATM, I dosed the system once , when I first got the puffer because he showed signs of ich pretty quickly. It's been almost 3 weeks or more w/o copper. I used the recommended dosage for my tank. I've done plenty of water changes and added carbon since then, doubt there's any color left.
The kind of copper used in cupramine gets absorbed by rocks, sand, or anything that’s porous. So the actual concentration of copper in the water to treat problems isn’t what you think. The bottle instruction is for a clean and empty container. If you followed the instructions, you likely had underdosed but was good enough to kill off ich but you may have other issues such as flukes which needs prazi. What you really need to do to save this puffer is to either learn how to QT really quickly or get him back to your LFS to see if they can save him.
 

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Puffers come in frequently with internal parasites, the treatment would be general cure. Lethargy, stringy poo, and obviously disinterest in food.
 
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The kind of copper used in cupramine gets absorbed by rocks, sand, or anything that’s porous. So the actual concentration of copper in the water to treat problems isn’t what you think. The bottle instruction is for a clean and empty container. If you followed the instructions, you likely had underdosed but was good enough to kill off ich but you may have other issues such as flukes which needs prazi. What you really need to do to save this puffer is to either learn how to QT really quickly or get him back to your LFS to see if they can save him.
You don't think medic from polyp lab is useful? I havent dosed copper a second time but I have used medic for about 3 weeks on and off. I have no sand or rocks, only thing that may absorb it would be my bio bricks in sump. If u really think I should dose w prazi, I will do so. Just added some clams on half shell .no luck
 
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coral_garage

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Puffers come in frequently with internal parasites, the treatment would be general cure. Lethargy, stringy poo, and obviously disinterest in food.
Yes he does have stringy poo!! So would you recommendation be prazi? Or dose w copper a 2nd time? have test kits and could run a 2nd course the right way, but wanted to ask a last resort..again, he looks pretty chunky, isn't exactly starving...again, no visible signs of anything... probably something Internal..whatya guys suggest? I have been using medic by polyp laugh which was highly recommended and since that's not working do you think prazi would even be effective? It's been almost 2 weeks without food so maybe I should just dose again with copper. When he had ich, at first..the copper made him feel back to normal almost immediately.. again I never measure it so it's a good chance I didn't sustain the proper levels but can do so on my second course
 
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Forget the UV if your are using cupramine as it actually makes the copper more toxic.

how are you measuring the copper concentration? Hanna?

suggest to switch to coppersafe or copper power. Safer and more tolerable for a scaleless creature like puffer.

cupramine is likely the reason why your puffer isn’t feeling well.
Meaning it's snot strong enough? I have salifert test kit..
 
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coral_garage

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Likely not since he hasn’t eaten for two weeks. I don’t think he has another two weeks. Maybe a week.
Agree, I don't want to mess around with other medications because he's already on borrowed time will start a second course of copper today and will measure probably and sustain the levels recommended for cupramine.
 

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Agree, I don't want to mess around with other medications because he's already on borrowed time will start a second course of copper today and will measure probably and sustain the levels recommended for cupramine.
But are you using the right medicine? Is it ich or velvet that’s bothering him? You need to describe more of his symptoms and upload a video or whatnot. If it’s flukes then cupramine isn’t helping one bit. Puffers don’t deal with cupramine well to begin with IME. Coppersafe or power is a much better choice for ich & velvet.
 

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Yes he does have stringy poo!! So would you recommendation be prazi? Or dose w copper a 2nd time? have test kits and could run a 2nd course the right way, but wanted to ask a last resort..again, he looks pretty chunky, isn't exactly starving...again, no visible signs of anything... probably something Internal..whatya guys suggest? I have been using medic by polyp laugh which was highly recommended and since that's not working do you think prazi would even be effective? It's been almost 2 weeks without food so maybe I should just dose again with copper. When he had ich, at first..the copper made him feel back to normal almost immediately.. again I never measure it so it's a good chance I didn't sustain the proper levels but can do so on my second course

I'm going to go out a limb, not being a "disease expert" that he does have internal parasites. While prazi pro can be effective for some parasites, it does miss many, and many of the ones I see today. General cure is the most effective treatment, it is not considered reef safe so read up on it, and dose to water volume not tank size. I do have a ton of experience with puffers and this happens frequently.

There is no need for copper and copper will not address this issue.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Please, post a clear video of the puffer.
What is the current copper reading?

Everyone is guessing, we don’t have enough background information…. don’t start a copper treatment until we have better information.
There is no reason to think that adding a UV would have any benefit in this case, they have no benefit for flukes or internal infections, which are the two likely diagnoses here.

Jay
 
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coral_garage

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But are you using the right medicine? Is it ich or velvet that’s bothering him? You need to describe more of his symptoms and upload a video or whatnot. If it’s flukes then cupramine isn’t helping one bit. Puffers don’t deal with cupramine well to begin with IME. Coppersafe or power is a much better choice for ich & velvet.
Well I don't know, hence the thread. He has no visible signs of anything. He just hasn't eaten for almost 2 weeks. That's the real only symptom. He was was always on one spot til I dosed polyplab medic , which seemed to improve his behavior a little... noticed he swam a bit more and now has a different spot he likes (both spots seemed to be near my heater) not that that's relevant.
Please, post a clear video of the puffer.
What is the current copper reading?

Everyone is guessing, we don’t have enough background information…. don’t start a copper treatment until we have better information.
There is no reason to think that adding a UV would have any benefit in this case, they have no benefit for flukes or internal infections, which are the two likely diagnoses hete.

Jay
I will post a video shortly but he's probably not going to be moving is it going to be sitting at his favorite spot by the heater like I noted earlier. Copper reading should be close to if not zero because it's been many weeks since I treated him, but we'll test shortly to establish a baseline. I posted a photo that I took yesterday of him I'll post it again.
IMG_20230323_204950~2.jpg
 

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