Here's a video of my Shadow overflow. VERY QUIET!!!

Discussion in 'Synergy Reef Systems' started by Engloid, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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    Here is a video of my shadow overflow. I started the video with the center emergency overflow removed. This allows you to see how much flow there is, as well as how loud it is. Later in the video you will see how difficult it is to see the flow rate.

    I don't think I will ever again have a tank without one of these.

    I will post another video below in the next post.

     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  2. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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  3. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    @Engloid awesome! Thanks for sharing. The Shadow overflow is a great piece of equipment when set up properly. Once you have experienced it, there is nothing like it! This was the reason why I wanted to be able to make these available to everyone in our hobby. When I did my first prototype testing over 5 years ago I knew these were going to be a game changer for how everyone would set up new systems.
     
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  4. Dubs83

    Dubs83 Active Member Build Thread Contributor NJRC Member

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    @Engloid how much flow are you running through it? It doesn’t look like there’s a lot flowing through there. I’m at 900gph and have tried everything from enkemat to raising the water level inside the outside box to quiet mine down. No luck. It’s not the drains making the noise but the water flowing into the internal box over the weir. If I remove the weir completely, it’s dead silent.
     
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  5. justingraham

    justingraham Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018 NJRC Member

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    Dubs try running 1200 gallons thru it my living room is like Niagara falls and the back of my box is covered in salt precipitation
     
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  6. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    Lol. We have gone back and forth with your "Niagara Falls" issues. This is always your comments. If you have it tuned properly 1200 gallons is nothing. Stop trying to bash our product as we discussed this in PM before. It's not a magic box and does require proper setup for optimal performance. There are so many ways to setup plumbing and equipment that there is no "one way" to do it.

    Here is a video that we did at MACNA running well over 1200 gph. Notice NO Niagara Falls.



    Your rear box pipes are not set correctly and dialed in if you getting any noise with 900 gph.
     
  7. Dubs83

    Dubs83 Active Member Build Thread Contributor NJRC Member

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    I wish I had a picture of my set up because I want this to be quiet!! I essentially followed your video tutorial and cut several pieces of PVC at different lengths to adjust water level in the rear box. There’s no change. In some previous posts you and I spoke about making sure the bulk heads are completely covered. If I do that, the water level in the rear box is uncomfortably close to the top of the box. I can confirm that the severity of noise depends on what my wave makers are doing (intensity and mode). I’ll record a video and post it up to maybe get Your take on it. I also get a ton of salt creep on the box which eventually ends up on my floor. Not sure if that’s an indication of something wrong with the rear box or my installation of it. Drive down to jersey and show me what I’m doing wrong dangit!
     
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  8. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    I wish I could be there and do it for you lol.

    Our current video is really only intended to be a how to properly glue it together video. It's not really a tuning video. We are working on the actual tuning video and it will be out after the first of the year. It will be detailed with flow meters and will show different flow rates and how to set it properly.

    Salt creep with salt water equipment is a normal thing and it can build up around the back box if not maintained. We recommend just wiping it down every few weeks as part of a normal maintenance plan. That being said excessive salt creep can indicate something may be not set correctly. Salt creep is caused by air and water turbulence. Even at high flow rates when tuned should be pretty calm in the rear box.

    Feel free to email us all of your details and I will be happy to help you with it.
     
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  9. justingraham

    justingraham Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018 NJRC Member

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    Well let’s do some math to find out his guesstimated gallons per hour the rear shadow overflow box holds roughly 1.8 gallons in the video it fills up in roughly ten seconds so that’s a whopping 648 gallons an hour


    But wait the lower pipe is not seven inches is it so let’s say he adjusted his overflow like the rest of the world at 3.25 inches instead of the 2.25 that he looks like he is running at that is .8 gallons now in the backbox we will do roughly ten seconds again and he is at 288 gallons an hour.
     
  10. mixer911

    mixer911 Make them green with envy R2R Supporter MTRCMember Gold Sponsor

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    Such an inaccurate way to calculate flow rates. You can't calculate how fast it fills up without calculating what is going down the primary drain as well. Before it starts to fill past the primary the internal pipes have to fill up down to his gate valve. You would also need to know how long his pipe run is before the said gate valve. Water is flowing down the primary almost instantly. And how much is the gate valve closed? Way too many variables that you are again "assuming" to do your calculations. I think the OP would know a little better what they are approximately running. Low flow or high flow doesn't make a difference when tuned right. This is a perfect example if he is running low flow. Our video shows you the 1200 GPH you are complaining about.
     
  11. justingraham

    justingraham Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018 NJRC Member

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    This is great u always tell me the same thing ur box can handle this or ur box can handle that then I wrote a message on a thread and u pm’ed me asking me why I bashed ur product crying to me that it’s going to make u look bad and what did i ever do to u?

    In your video at macna your running a vectra m1 with one inch pipe hate to break it to you that’s 550 gallons an hour at most running at 100% not 1200 gallons You claim

    I have lived with ur product for almost a year a year in which Niagra falls is in my living room And ur faulty product that has well over (whatever lie u want to use please insert here )and has no problems. So it is just me with this problem. But then when u look further into which I want everyone to do there is mutiple and by mutiple I mean hundreds of people complaining about ur front weir and the noise it makes.

    Ur product can not handle “flow” u think it can but it can’t ur 1200 gallons in hour is much like the video 288 gallons an hour tons of flow right? (something I might add a reef ready tank can handle quietly for free and without the owner lying about what it is) But that’s not the icing on the cake u claim this thing can handle 4000 gallons an hour.

    So I have not set it up right correct your overflows are the greatest right? But u have told me personally to put filter floss in the front box to stop the sound as I was running to much flow. U actually said I was going to have noise as ur box isn't rated to handle two vectra m1s which in your mind is 8000 gallons an hour but in reality it’s only 1200 (All this is easy to find for the people reading also shows everyone where your math is) so if ur product can handle all this flow why would u tell me to put filter floss in it?

    If U had the salt creep I have on your tank would u take the answer that I need an o ring (esp after being told this product is perfect) and everything has salt creep? No and I wouldn’t expect u to but how dumb do u think we are? In fact call Ecotech up and tell them salt creep is coming from the collar and see if they tell you hey salt creep happens it’s part of the hobby. You know what even better call Red Sea and tell them your reefer series overflow has salt creep everywhere with everything hooked up as stated in the manual and see if they tell you to deal with it because it’s part of the hobby. Ur product is injected perfectly there is no problems with the design and it is all my fault and only mine because no one else out there has had these problems.


    I have thanked u more then a couple times for trying to help me figure out what the problem was and always getting back to me in a decent manner. But to say that the sound is my fault and user error because u know of someone who is running that much flow without any noise isn't cool at all and in act I want u to tell me who they are so I can see how they made it silent and I guarantee u one of two things they do not have that much flow going through the front weir or they have put filter floss in it . Cause my house sounds like a dang waterfall and I have personally talked to almost everyone on here with ur overflow and who is truly running the gallons an hour I am running and they all say the same thing filter floss to quiet it but if you want to have it dead silent you will need to get an overflow box that is the same height as the front because the noise is from the water cascading into the back box ur perfect design that is the best thing ever to hit the salt Aquarium trade has a terrible design.


    Like I said I have done certain things to dampen the noise make sure I have the same flow out of both my return pumps as U told me that was originally my problem cause u had a problem with ur vectras and had to factory set them three or four times to fix them. Well I have the fmk and matched the return gph and guess what there is still sound. I also have matched the output flow from my returns to the return flow of your ghost overflow and guess what IT STILL IS AS LOUD AND ANNOYING In order not to get sound I had to turn down my return pumps to put out a combined 300 gallons an hour. Exactly what the video above shows for flow That's two vectra m1s both putting out 150 gallons an hour for people out there who don't quiet understand how slow this is this is the third dot on the controller and well I'm not doing that as I got this box because it was rated to handle 1500 gallons an hour silently. So now that u also know I have the fmk tell me how it's a problem with the apex and not with the overflow box like you told me it was my return pumps fault not ur design. Tell me how I need to update my flow sensors as apex are just a bad design. so whos do u think is better for what flow u want to see? do I need ghl’s or another flow monitor that tells u your overflow box is dead silent at 2000 gallons and I am wrong.


    I have thanked u many of times for helping me out and always answering my questions and I mean that but don't call me out or tell me it's my fault when u have no idea how many people I have talked to with this same problem trying to figure out how to make it quiet and because u say it should be fine well u stop answering questions.(that is also easy to find while searching) and then when another person ask on the same thread if they ever found out what the problem was and why u didn't respond to my last post bash him as well. I'm starting to think ur costumer service isn't that good just by the way u treat people. I'm not here to just bash u or ur design or to troll you. I have a synergy reef ghost overflow and I can't take it out of my tank or change it so I am stuck with it and the noise that comes along with it. Also I’m stuck with a p’ed off wife who I promised a silent tank to in my living room. Because I read all of your post and for some reason believed u that it was silent when the documentation is out there that ur product has flaws. And how u make people think otherwise is calling people like me trolls who are only here to bash ur product when the truth is u are not a good business owner instead of listening to your customers that have problems you decide to blame everything on the customer.

    So instead of fixing the problem blame me and my inability to raise the secondary pipe high enough to make it quiet because well U put a lid in the way a lid that is covered in salt which I'm sure is also my fault. I have a graveyard of 1 1/2 pipes in 1/4 inch sizes from 3.25 to 7 inches. So how did I not adjust it properly? That’s right everyone who runs mad flow like the original poster who btw is running less then 300 gallons an hour dead silent means that I have no idea how to set up my overflow box.



    Justin
     
  12. Tahoe61

    Tahoe61 Moderator Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Showcase Editor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018 Partner Member

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    Out of respect for the original poster please keep this thread on topic. Disputes or feedback should take place in the vendor feedback forum.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  13. Dubs83

    Dubs83 Active Member Build Thread Contributor NJRC Member

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    @Engloid how much water are you pumping through the over flow?
     
  14. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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    I love mine. I'm not sure of the flow rate. I'm keeping an eye out for a deal on a flowmeter for my apex. I really think many people worry too much about the volume of flow through their sump. IMO, a sump is really just a place to increase total system volume and keep mechanical items hidden or in an area that noise isn't a problem. None of us want a loud sump in our living room, or we at least want to use a stand to help contain and muffle the noise. It's also a place to hide the typical wires and other unsightly things. I don't think flow rates are as important as many people claim. I have a 30g sump. I don't know the brand, but I can tell it's a professionally made piece. It has the small refugium section in the back with black acrylic divider and probe holders. The bubble wall is 16in across. There's only so much flow you can get across a bubble wall without it creating bubbles as the water falls down it. I am using the Vectra L1 as a return pump, and it's up about 75%, pumping up from my basement to my 125g display. I have three heaters in the sump, and my flow rate is enough to keep the tank temperature stable.

    Looking forward, I would only suggest a couple things for the product:
    1) Go ahead and include the pvc pieces to go inside the box, precut to length. It's just going to be a little more money and will really make the install much easier, as well as reduce customer service questions on how to determine the lengths. Not only that, but it will help insure that the customer gets it set up in a way to really see the advantage of this system. The last thing you'd want is a person buying one, not having it set up right, and blaming your product.
    2) The plastic itself is a little bit of a concern to me. I do worry about it cracking. I would rather see something like a pvc part that has a bit more flexibility. I'm interested to know how many of these people have broken. I'm sure it's pretty much always the customer's fault for putting too much force on them, but if it virtually never happens, maybe I'm just paranoid about breaking mine.

    I really don't think there's much room for improvement on this piece, and that's after my using it for over a year. When I set up my next tank, there's no question that I will buy another one of these for it.
     
  15. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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    I'm not sure. I'm hoping to catch a deal on an apex flowmeter sometime and then I'll know. See my other post above. I think people worry too much about trying to get a ton of flow through a sump. It's really not needed. The only way you need that is if you're highly dependent on your return pump to provide water flow in the tank. In my case, I have an MP40 and a Jebao WP40, in a 125g, so I have plenty of flow even if the return pump is turned off.
     
  16. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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    [Q


    UOTE="justingraham, post: 4285256, member: 71231"]Well let’s do some math to find out his guesstimated gallons per hour the rear shadow overflow box holds roughly 1.8 gallons in the video it fills up in roughly ten seconds so that’s a whopping 648 gallons an hour

    But wait the lower pipe is not seven inches is it so let’s say he adjusted his overflow like the rest of the world at 3.25 inches instead of the 2.25 that he looks like he is running at that is .8 gallons now in the backbox we will do roughly ten seconds again and he is at 288 gallons an hour.[/QUOTE]
    I really don't see why anybody needs 1200gph through a box this small anyway. If you have a tank big enough to need that flow, I'd assume you would need a weir much wider, or more than one of these. Also, you'd need a heck of a wide sump so the bubble wall doesn't create bubbles.

    I can't find it, but somewhere I posted a really good write up on how to set the heights of the pipes in the box, including why. I did a nice explanation of exactly how the box works. Understanding how it works is important, unless somebody just hands you the pipe and you put it together. I wish I could find it to post it here, because I put quite a bit of time into it. I'll attempt a short version below.

    The emergency channel, I put about 3/4" from the top of the box. It's easy to change that later if needed, but that's a safe bet usually (of course, test once it's running).

    The secondary channel height is very critical to proper function. See below. If your water level is too high, you will get noise. In a perfect world, you will get no flow at all through the secondary, because the primary siphon will siphon at the perfect rate water is coming into the box. That won't happen, even with a flowmeter to measure it. Even if you measure the same gallon per day in and out, you may even be a tablespoon per day more siphon than is going into the box and that will multiply each day until you get a gurgle, burp or something that signifies a recovery of lost siphon. Therefore, the plan is to have the siphon pull slightly LESS than what's going into the box. That very slight amount will trickle down into the secondary pipe. Having the elbow on it helps to muffle the noise that comes out of the piping. Keep in mind that you hear noise because there's air in the pipe. That's why the primary is quiet, because there's no air in there for the water to splash around.

    The primary doesn't really even need an elbow, but it can keep down the change of a vortex and sucking in air.

    Capture.png
    Here's a pretty quick pic to explain the plumbing. The only thing I will add to this is that the red line in the drawing needs to be at or close to the top of the above the center of the three holes going to the weir. If you plan higher flow rates, you need to pay a bit more attention to this and try to make it slightly OVER the three holes. That way all water transfer from the inner box is under the water level (no water surface noise). Excuse the typo of the word trickle.
    Capture.png
     
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  17. Makers Marc

    Makers Marc Active Member

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    Engloid,

    Great explanation, wish I saw this weeks ago when I installed mine. It took lots of cuts to get the right height and tuning of my gate valve,for mine to be dead silent on my 180g. Which it is.....

    Until I plugged in my 2xgyre xf250 which created turbulence on the surface. The turbulence makes the overflow noisy as Justin has been complaining about. If i remove the weir or point the gyres downward it gets silent.

    Problem is, having my Gyres pointing down are causing major erosion in my substrate.

    Engloid- can you take a video of your tank with its powerheads aimed at the surface, so we can see if you have the same problem? Your current video doesnt show that.
     
  18. Engloid

    Engloid Valuable Member VRJ Member

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    I have a jebao wp40 on one side, near the top. I have a vortech mp40 on the other side, also about 4" from the top. I don't point anything downward, because I don't want to mess up the sand. Not sure specifically what you want a video of, but I did do this one. Maybe it will show what you want.
     
  19. behold81

    behold81 New Member

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    I have been trying to make mine silent. I can’t.

    Does the primary need shortening as much as possible to ensure the hole is below the waterline? Then raise the secondary and just adjust till the water is up to the secondary??

    It’s a new 16inch model
     
  20. Makers Marc

    Makers Marc Active Member

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    5 months in, I've come to peace that I am never going to have a completely quiet Shadow overflow, with my powerheads (2 x Gyre XF-250) agitating the surface in any way.

    I still think it is one of the best overflows a reefer can buy, so don't get me wrong.

    But I just cant point either Gyre towards the surface as much as I'd like, and silence > optimal flow, at this point.

    But once I fill with more corals, some them may be getting blasted in the face more than i'd like.

     
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